Spurs Insider Podcast, 2026-06-13 03:37:00
专栏作家迈克·芬格 (Mike Finger) 和随队记者汤姆·奥斯本 (Tom Orsborn) 讨论了马刺在总决赛第四场中的历史性崩盘，分析了达龙·福克斯 (De’Aaron Fox) 在最后几秒的关键决定，并探讨了维克托·文班亚马 (Victor Wembanyama) 及其队友是否有能力在1比3落后的情况下实现逆转。
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以下是播客的文字实录：
播客主持人：本期《马刺内幕》（Spurs Insider）由戴维斯律师事务所（Davis Law Firm）赞助播出。想要了解更多？请致电4444。
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迈克·芬格：这里是来自德克萨斯州南部高度安全、绝密网络地点的《马刺内幕》总决赛特别版。这听起来比“花园球馆痛击版”或“NBA总决赛历史上最大逆转版”要好听一些。我是迈克·芬格，身边依然是《圣安东尼奥新闻快报》的马刺随队记者汤姆·奥斯本。汤姆，杰夫·麦克唐纳 (Jeff McDonald) 因为前几天晚上在麦迪逊广场花园目睹的一切而情绪过于崩溃，今天早上无法加入我们。但我们要像本地的马刺将士们一样砥砺前行，他们在总决赛中以1比3落后于纽约尼克斯，同样需要重整旗鼓。周六，他们将回到霜冻银行中心（Frost Bank Center）进行第五场比赛。汤姆，我想问你，这轮系列赛悬念还在吗？马刺还有希望吗？
汤姆·奥斯本：有。是的，迈克·芬格，他们当然有。这是一个响亮的“有”。只要打得更聪明点。我的意思是，这群人在心理上，你知道，他们一整年展现给我们的特质就是，没有什么能真正击垮他们，我认为他们会在心理上恢复过来。他们只是需要打得更聪明。教练需要执教得更聪明，球员需要打得更聪明。你知道，在我看来，这就是导致崩盘的原因。他们就是打得不够聪明。顺便说一句，迈克，我觉得那天晚上我可能是个“扫把星”。
迈克·芬格：哦？
汤姆·奥斯本：很多很多年前，当休斯顿油人队（Oilers）在布法罗惨遭历史性大逆转时，我就在现场的媒体席上。我敢说，我可能是媒体同行中唯一一个亲眼见证了这两次史诗级崩盘的人。所以，我可能真的是那个“诅咒”，我也不好说。
迈克·芬格：对于年轻的观众和听众来说，大家可能会觉得新英格兰爱国者和亚特兰大猎鹰那场28比3的超级碗是NFL历史上最史诗级的崩盘。但当年油人队对阵布法罗比尔队的那场比赛……你觉得前几天的比赛和当年那场比赛有什么相似之处吗？
汤姆·奥斯本：问得好，迈克·芬格。一个相似之处是，在这两场比赛的半场休息时，我都做了一些事情，表明我认为比赛已经稳操胜券了。
迈克·芬格：你是不是安排了行程？[笑声]
汤姆·奥斯本：我想是在1990年的半场休息时，我安排了去匹兹堡看美联冠军赛（AFC Championship）的行程。不对，比那还要晚，我忘了是哪一年，好像是92年或93年。但不管怎样，我当时做好了出行安排。而前几天晚上在麦迪逊广场花园的半场休息时，我向编辑部提交了花絮报道的选题规划，写着：“关于德文·瓦塞尔 (Devin Vassell) 和创纪录的三分球投射。”[笑声] 所以，回到那场布法罗的比赛……
迈克·芬格：这就对了。你的同事杰夫·麦克唐纳手头有很多事情。我之前开玩笑说他情绪崩溃，他确实总是处于情绪崩溃的状态。但这次不是因为情绪，他只是有其他事务要处理。[笑声] 我不想透露太多，但他当时在看机票。在那场比赛的半场休息时，我们所有人，所有人都在看第六场的机票。当你做好准备时，你就会这么做，你可不想错过座位。
汤姆·奥斯本：确实。现在我问你一个问题：在布法罗对阵休斯顿的那场比赛中，油人队痛失好局的一个隐藏原因（虽然没怎么引起关注）是，他们的职业碗弃踢手格雷格·蒙哥马利 (Greg Montgomery) 表现糟糕。因此，比尔队在下半场总是能从很好的位置开始进攻。那么在这场比赛中，除了显而易见的教练失误、球员失误之外，是否还有我们尚未注意到的隐藏因素？就像我说的，在心理层面上，也就是打得聪明这方面，他们两样都没做好。我觉得下半场没有人打得聪明。
迈克·芬格：是的，我的意思是，当你在寻找隐藏因素时，在总决赛这样的舞台上，一切都会被无限放大。我想不仅仅是《马刺内幕》播客的成员在报道这轮系列赛。看看四周，你会发现对这轮系列赛的报道非常精彩。联盟里有那么多优秀、有才华、工作刻苦的媒体人，看看大家写了什么、指出了什么，真的很有意思。你看看三分球投射是如何崩盘的。你再看看上半场的球员使用情况，当时马刺领先了20分、25分，甚至快30分，但你依然无法给卢克·科内特 (Luke Kornet) 多于一次两分钟的出场时间。我问你，我这么说不是为了当恶人，也不是为了针对谁，但如果你在领先25分的时候都无法给卢克·科内特超过两分钟的时间，我真不知道你什么时候才能派他上场。而且，我并不是说因为维克托·文班亚马打了43、44分钟左右就导致了输球。但你总会希望在比赛早期能让你的核心球员多休息一会儿。尽管正如米奇——你知道的，我赛后问过米奇·约翰逊 (Mitch Johnson) 这个问题。他说我们在第四场和第五场之间有两天的休息时间，他不担心未来的体能恢复。但我好奇你是否担心第四节的体能。如果你在领先25分的时候都不考虑第四节的休息问题，而维克托当时看起来确实累坏了。好吧，马刺全队看起来都精疲力竭了。你先说，我只是在想换人轮换上是不是有什么问题。
汤姆·奥斯本：不，不，这是一个非常好的观点。我认为这可能要追溯到对阵俄克拉荷马城雷霆的那轮系列赛。我忘了是哪一场，但他们早早取得了巨大领先。米奇在第一节比平时更早地换下了文班。我记得那场比赛雷霆后来逆转赢了。在我看来，他这次让文班打这么长时间的全部想法，你知道，是一种非常具有侵略性的心态。而且我认为在下半场，出于同样的侵略性和贪婪，他们一直在盲目投三分。我不知道，但这简直就是一连串该死的心理失误。
迈克·芬格：确实，正如你所说，汤姆，这是一个极好的联想，让人想起了马刺曾经领先却被逆转的那些比赛，因为他们没有防患于未然，没有在有机会的时候彻底杀死比赛。而且，我的意思是，米奇·约翰逊并不是傻子。他不是在场上胡乱指挥、全凭直觉。显然，他的想法是：我们甚至不要让尼克斯觉得他们有任何机会能追回来。让我们带着25分、30分的优势进入半场，直接解决战斗。而且，卢克·科内特在季后赛的表现不如常规赛，这已经不是什么秘密了，就像好几位替补球员的表现也不如常规赛一样。所以，干脆连希望都不要给他们。我理解这种想法背后的逻辑，但当尼克斯无论如何都依然抱有希望时，这最终会让你付出代价，让你自食其果，这差不多就是那天发生的事情。
汤姆·奥斯本：也许这就是格雷格·蒙哥马利的问题所在，他就是对科内特没有信心。我也不清楚。但你是对的，他不是傻子[笑声]，而且，我们也得给尼克斯一些赞誉。那真是一群硬骨头。非常强硬的对手。
迈克·芬格：是的。我想另一个方面，如果我们想探讨战术策略层面的东西，在最后阶段，我们稍后会讨论福克斯的上篮尝试。那是显而易见的，不是什么隐藏因素。前几天晚上马刺更衣室里有人提到了雷·阿伦 (Ray Allen) 的那一记三分球，当然，这场失利让人想起了雷·阿伦，那是马刺历史上最令人痛心的失利之一。当时马刺在防守那一球时，蒂姆·邓肯 (Tim Duncan) 不在场上，他没能在那里卡住克里斯·波什 (Chris Bosh)。球被拨到了底角的雷·阿伦手里，剩下的就是历史了。前几天晚上在更衣室里，一位非《马刺内幕》播客的媒体同行问：“为什么最后一防要让达龙·福克斯留在场上？”我想这确实有一定道理。但我的回答或者说反驳是，无论如何，最后一投他们都会去包夹布伦森。我想当时是维克托和福克斯在包夹布伦森。布伦森顶着包夹出手，球没进，正如你所预料的那样。然后篮下一片混乱，OG·阿奴诺比 (OG Anunoby) 完成了载入史册的一击。我的意思是，是的，关于卡位确实有规则，当你身后没有人时，你要寻找对手去卡位，比如迪伦·哈珀 (Dylan Harper) 或者其他人，斯蒂芬·卡斯尔 (Stephon Castle) 当时在卡位唐斯（KAT），他不能离开。我想迪伦·哈珀当时可能是漏人了。但要指望他穿过油漆区去贴身卡住OG，这在理想情况下或许是应该做的，但很难因为OG那记史诗级的补篮而单纯去责怪他。
汤姆·奥斯本：他反应太快了，迅速冲进了油漆区。我是说，这完全是他个人的一次精彩表现。但是，你知道，从暂停中走出来，这大概就是既定的比赛计划——包夹布伦森，这难道是一件愚蠢的事吗？我不这么认为。
迈克·芬格：不，我的意思是，你必须让对方最好的球员、那个显然想执行最后一投的人，出手变得尽可能艰难，而他也确实没投进。而且，值得称赞的是，布伦森出手足够早，从而为第二次补篮留出了可能性。汤姆，坐在我当时的位置上——我们当时在麦迪逊广场花园没有坐在一起——那绝对是球馆历史上最震撼的场景之一。全场陷入疯狂，那真是一个让人惊呼“我的天呐”的时刻。那场面真是令人叹为观止，老兄。
汤姆·奥斯本：确实。因为我坐的位置电梯情况比较复杂，我需要很早就离开座位。所以，就像第三场比赛一样，我和前《新闻快报》同事梅丽莎·罗林 (Melissa Rohlin) 在第三节结束时就乘电梯去了媒体室。说起来有些遗憾[笑声]，但下面也有很多欢呼声。你知道，媒体席上是不允许欢呼的，但我猜在媒体室里欢呼应该没问题。所以，当时有很多尼克斯的工作人员和雇员都疯了，你知道，谁又能责怪他们呢？
迈克·芬格：赛后的场景，你我都多次穿梭过麦迪逊广场花园的后台通道，那里有来来往往的走廊，各种各样的人穿行其中。这让我想起了米奇·约翰逊的赛后新闻发布会，那是在一个临时搭建、用帘子隔开的房间里。它没有媒体室里常见的那种实体墙，因为他们想为所有媒体和房间里的椅子腾出空间。但我提到帘子和临时设施的重点是，当时依然有人在尖叫，有太多人从那里经过。那可是比赛结束20、30分钟后啊！是的，这让我想起了报道大学比赛的场景，我特别记得有一场，德克萨斯大学在韦科的老弗洛伊德·凯西体育场（Floyd Casey Stadium）输给了贝勒大学。当你去报道大学橄榄球客场赛后的新闻发布会时，很多时候发布会的布置都非常简陋和临时，球迷们就在外面尖叫。这营造出一种超现实的氛围，教练——在这种情况下是米奇·约翰逊——正试图回答关于他如何搞砸了比赛，或者马刺如何挥霍了29分领先优势、一切是如何崩盘的问题。而他根本听不清提问。你也听不清，即使有麦克风和扬声器，里面庆祝的噪音也太大了，甚至在比赛结束20分钟后依然如此，你简直会怀疑：“这是真的吗？”
汤姆·奥斯本：是的。
迈克·芬格：嗯，想象一下，尽管你在播客开始时表现得非常乐观，汤姆，但要如何从那场比赛的情绪重创中走出来。对这些家伙来说，这将是一项艰巨的任务，因为那天晚上他们被彻底击垮了，这显而易见。而且，我不知道，他们很年轻，很有韧性，大多数时候都拥有像汤姆·奥斯本一样的平静[笑声]，但面对这支他们在季后赛中遇到过的最强球队，这将是一项艰巨的任务。
汤姆·奥斯本：他们，嗯，好吧，有几个想法。是的，我向米奇提出了第一个问题，他不得不凑过来听[笑声]，“不好意思，你说什么？”而且，是的，在媒体室里，当我从媒体室走向新闻发布厅时，尼克斯的旗手们——就是那些举着旗子跑出来的家伙——正走进来，其中一个人简直失控了，完全失控了。[笑声] 谈到超现实，我觉得我这辈子都没见过有人会做出那样的反应。他当时的样子真是令人大开眼界。但是，是的，好吧。是的，他们被击垮了，这很自然。但我看到了一些好的迹象。没有人逃避媒体采访义务，我绝对没有针对文班的意思，但是，他们都，你知道，该站出来说话的人都说话了。这总是一个好迹象。而且我认为年轻在此时发挥了作用。这些家伙，你知道，斯蒂芬、迪伦、文班，他们很年轻，真的很年轻。他们比我们这些老家伙更容易恢复过来，对吧，迈克？
迈克·芬格：是的，我当时在想，我在那场比赛后凌晨4点多提交的专栏文章中提到了这一点[笑声]，我花了太长时间才写完。但是，你回过头来看雷·阿伦的那场比赛，我认为那是唯一的对比。你可以追溯到马刺季后赛历史上更久远的那些令人痛心的比赛，从罗德·斯特里克兰 (Rod Strickland) 的背后传球，到很久以前对阵华盛顿子弹队的系列赛，那里有一些毁灭性的失利。而这是一场在总决赛舞台上的比赛，你几乎已经赢下了比赛，然后却输掉了。在这样级别的舞台上，只有两场：雷·阿伦的那场，和这一场。
汤姆·奥斯本：雷·阿伦那场是第一，是的。
迈克·芬格：雷·阿伦那场是第一，因为如果他没投进那一球，马刺就是NBA总冠军了。就这么简单。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的。
迈克·芬格：嗯，而这一场，如果OG·阿奴诺比没有投进那一球，汤姆，我认为马刺会成为这轮系列赛的热门，因为他们刚刚取得两连胜，拥有主场优势，而尼克斯肯定会想：“我们已经把比赛搞砸了。”尼克斯会彻底崩溃。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的。
迈克·芬格：所以，如果雷·阿伦那场是第一，那么这场就是1A或1B。我想说的是，当年承受了雷·阿伦那一记重击的球队拥有三位未来的名人堂成员：蒂姆·邓肯、马努·吉诺比利 (Manu Ginobili) 和托尼·帕克 (Tony Parker)。几天后，他们还有机会在迈阿密进行一场一战定乾坤的第七场决战。他们由名人堂教练格雷格·波波维奇 (Gregg Popovich) 执教。他们经验丰富，拥有冠军底蕴，诸如此类，但他们依然没能挺过来。你知道，从波波维奇到马努再到蒂姆，他们所有人这些年来都会说，那是他们遭受过的最沉重的打击，这在精神上摧毁了他们。我不想显得过于消极，但如果那些家伙都无法承受[笑声]，并且无法赢下他们需要的那一场比赛，我不是说这支马刺队做不到，但现在马刺必须连续赢下三场。这是一项极其艰巨的任务。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的，但他们在那场比赛中确实拼到了最后。
迈克·芬格：确实。我并不是说马刺会在周六回来并遭遇一场惨败。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的。
迈克·芬格：但这确实很难，老兄。
汤姆·奥斯本：确实很难。但我还是坚持我的看法，我喜欢他们的态度。我只是看到了好的迹象。我看到了好的迹象。那么，回到福克斯的话题。
迈克·芬格：好。
汤姆·奥斯本：我知道这是个显而易见的问题，但关于那个上篮，你想深入探讨一下吗？
迈克·芬格：是的，而且，在公元2026年，仅仅是观看体育、报道体育、消费体育，就会遇到这样一个问题。[笑声] 那是一个愚蠢的战术选择，对吧？那不是一个聪明的打法。你当时应该做的是把球运出来，让自己被犯规，因为这能达到两个目的：它消耗了时间，消耗了宝贵的几秒钟，而在那时每一秒都至关重要。如果你是一个优秀的罚球手，你无论如何都能拿到这两分。而且，这排除了发生意外的可能性——比如没上进、在篮筐上被盖掉等等。那是一个愚蠢的打法，这无可辩驳。没有什么“哦，也许那是聪明的打法”这种说法。不，那就是个愚蠢的打法。但我刚才想说的是，在公元2026年消费体育，你不能只说这是一个愚蠢的打法。因为现在我们必须说这是“史上最愚蠢的打法”，没有任何借口，甚至有人问他是不是收了黑钱？我的邮箱里收到了一些阴谋论，说什么“这就是为什么马刺有福克斯就赢不了球，这就是为什么他们必须交易他，这就是为什么他们当初根本不应该交易得到他”等等。你不能只做一个简单的、陈述性的“这是一个愚蠢的打法”的结论然后就此揭过。你必须把它上升为一个巨大的失误，一个巨大的、极其糟糕且不可原谅的决定。我真的很讨厌这样，因为一个球员应该被允许犯错，而不至于让这个错误成为对他整个职业生涯的审判。这让我有点困扰。因此，像我们这样的播客在讨论达龙·福克斯应该和不应该做什么时的危险在于，人们想把它变成一件本不至于的事情。正如米奇·约翰逊本赛季一次又一次强调的那样，汤姆，当马刺处于最佳状态时，达龙·福克斯也处于最佳状态。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的，而且我认为在季后赛中依然如此。我认为现在是这样，未来也依然可能是这样。现在，我不想把这变成一场关于马刺未来的宏大讨论，但在未来的某个赛季，迪伦·哈珀是否有可能成为马刺的首发控球后卫？马刺是否会在未来的某个赛季放弃达龙·福克斯？当然有可能。但是，是的，我不认为这是因为某一个回合。而且，深入到那个回合的细节——我知道我刚才扯远了——他回头看了一眼，我看了很多遍回放，他确实看到了OG冲过来。我认为他应该足够聪明，意识到自己需要把球运出来。我不知道你对此还有什么要补充的，但这就是我的看法。
汤姆·奥斯本：既然我们刚从纽约回来，脑子里还带着点《法律与秩序》（Law & Order）的思维方式[笑声]，我知道那是你最喜欢的剧之一，我也很喜欢。我要来当一回辩护人。我要在这里扮演辩护律师，也就是公共辩护人，你知道的。[笑声] 在法院大楼的走廊里踱步，我要接下这个案子。
迈克·芬格：好的。
汤姆·奥斯本：嗯，你知道，他当时很有侵略性。他想通过一次进攻来结束比赛，彻底杀死悬念。[笑声] 你知道，正如我们常说的那样，一直用来形容他的词就是“速度型后卫”，他是速度最快的后卫之一。也许这就是傲慢，你知道，也许他想：“我可以跑得比这个家伙更快，虽然他打得非常好，正在经历一场伟大的比赛。”他瞬间做出了那个计算。所以，我不是说那是正确的计算，但我是在为他的计算过程辩护。他把所有这些因素都考虑进去了，然后说：“我要在此时此刻，在公元2026年[笑声]，把这件事搞定。我要利用我的速度，我要完成那个上篮，结束比赛。”而且，他之前也说过，我是说，他们当时投篮不中，无法完成战术。他把责任扛在了自己肩上。我是在为他辩护，我不会因此而谴责他。
迈克·芬格：确实，他们现在是在该死的总决赛舞台上，而他是球队能走到这里的重要原因。从这个角度来看，这确实是可以辩护的。使用“可以辩护”这个词并不意味着我认为他是对的。
汤姆·奥斯本：对。
迈克·芬格：我认为这依然是一个错误。
汤姆·奥斯本：好吧。
迈克·芬格：但确实如此，尤其是由你来担任他的公共辩护人，汤姆。[笑声] 我接受辩诉交易。我认为，你至少让陪审团停下来思考了一下。你可以判定他做出了错误的战术选择，但不能判定他是故意破坏。这并没有那么恶劣，对吧，不至于让人觉得“他到底在想什么？”我不知道。这些事情是有细微差别的，我只是讨厌这种风气——不只是简单地说这哥们儿搞砸了，而是非要说他是个糟糕的球员、一个关键时刻掉链子的人，马刺永远不应该再录用他。我认为在这两种观点之间有一个中间地带，这就是我的观点。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的，这中间确实有灰色地带。
迈克·芬格：是的。嗯，是的，我们还需要讨论什么？这是大家想要的特别版。在第五场比赛中，你期待看到什么——事情是这样的，我又开始唠叨了。如果马刺在第五场比赛中取得领先（他们在对阵尼克斯的每场比赛中都能取得领先[笑声]，这真的很疯狂）。那么，你觉得球队的情绪和氛围会是怎样的？你期待看到什么来告诉你这一次会有所不同，他们能够在霜冻银行中心守住领先优势？
汤姆·奥斯本：老兄，只要打得聪明点。打得聪明点，然后，你知道，依靠让你走到这里的本领。坚持行之有效的打法，诸如此类的陈词滥调，就像他们一整年那样去打球。然后，你知道，拼尽全力，巴拉巴拉巴拉。[笑声] 但我认为这是可以做到的。这就是我的核心观点。我认为这是可以做到的。这些年轻的小伙子们，他们可以把这些抛在脑后，而且，你知道，他们很有竞争心。他们是一群极具竞争力的家伙。斯蒂芬·卡斯尔是个战士，他会站出来的。是的。
迈克·芬格：一步一个脚印，一场一场打。
汤姆·奥斯本：一场一场打。
迈克·芬格：你也只能做到这些了。除此以外你还能做什么呢，“平静先生”？
汤姆·奥斯本：是啊，是啊。
迈克·芬格：好的，我们将在第五场比赛后，也就是下周初回来。到时我们可能会讨论第六场比赛，也可能会讨论休赛期。无论如何，保持感恩之心，降低不切实际的期望，照顾好彼此，保持真实。
[音乐]
由生成式人工智能翻译，译文内容可能不准确或不完整，以原文为准。
点击查看原文：Gut punch at the Garden (NBA Finals bonus edition)
Gut punch at the Garden (NBA Finals bonus edition)
Columnist Mike Finger and beat reporter Tom Orsborn discuss the Spurs’ historic meltdown in Game 4 of the NBA Finals, analyze De’Aaron Fox’s critical decision in the closing seconds, and ask whether Victor Wembanyama and company have what it takes to come back from a 3-1 deficit.
Suggested reading:
NBA admits critical call was wrong in Game 4 loss
One word sums up the Spurs’ approach to a do-or-die Game 5: ‘Believe.’
How can the Spurs get over an NBA Finals gut punch for the ages?
How Knicks’ OG Anunoby scored the game-winning bucket on a tip-in
Spurs vs. Knicks Game 4 in photos: A frame-by-frame look at the crushing defeat
Here is the transcript of the podcast:
Announcer: This episode of Spurs Insider is brought to you by Davis Law Firm. Want more? Call the fours.
[music]
Mike Finger: From a highly secure network of top-secret locations across South Texas, this is the Spurs Insider NBA Finals bonus edition. That sounds a little better than “Gut punch at the Garden edition” or “Biggest blown lead in NBA Finals history edition.” I am Mike Finger, joined as always by San Antonio Express-News Spurs beat writer, Tom Orsborn. Jeff McDonald, so emotionally overcome with everything that he witnessed in Madison Square Garden the other night, Tom, he wasn’t able to join us this morning, but we’re going to forge on much like the local Cagers need to forge on after falling behind 3 to 1 in the NBA Finals against the New York Knicks. They return to Frost Bank Center on Saturday for Game 5. I ask you, Tom, is this still a series? Do the Spurs still have hope?
Tom Orsborn: Yes. Yes, Mike Finger, they do. That’s a resounding yes. Just play smarter. I mean, this bunch mentally, I, you know, one thing they’ve taught us all year is they just don’t, nothing really rattles them, and I think they’ll recover from that mentally. They just got to play smarter. They got to coach smarter, play smarter. You know, that’s that’s to me, that’s what led to the collapse. They just didn’t play smart. And, by the way, I think I might have been the curse the other night, Mike.
Mike Finger: Yeah?
Tom Orsborn: Many, many, many years ago, I was in the press box there in Buffalo when the Oilers blew the historic lead. And I dare say I might be the only guy in the media corps that witnessed these two epic collapses. So, I I may be the curse, I don’t know.
Mike Finger: For the for the younger viewers out there, the younger listeners, that was, people think of 28 to 3, the Super Bowl with the Patriots and the Falcons as the the most epic NFL collapse. But those those Oilers, against the Bills that year, did you see any similarities between the other night and and that game way back in the day?
Tom Orsborn: Well, that’s that’s a good question, Mike Finger. One one similarity is that I did something at halftime of both games that, you know, indicated that I thought it was in the bag.
Mike Finger: Did you did you make travel [laughter]
Tom Orsborn: I made travel arrangements to go to Pittsburgh for the AFC Championship at halftime back in 1990, I think it was. No, it was it was later than that, I forget what year, '92, I think, '93. But anyway, I made travel arrangements and, at halftime at Madison Square Garden the other night, I went to our budget and I put in a budget line for my sidebar saying, “On Devin Vassell and the record-setting three-point shooting.” [laughter] So, now, in that Buffalo game…
Mike Finger: There you go. Now, your colleague, Jeff McDonald, who has lots going on. I was joking earlier about the emotional devastation. He’s always emotionally devastated. This was not anything emotional. He was, he just has, he has obligations. He [laughter] I don’t want to divulge too much, but he was looking at flights. We were all, we all had to be looking at flights for Game 6 at halftime of that game. That’s just what you do when you’re prepared, and you don’t want to, you don’t want to miss out on a seat.
Tom Orsborn: No. Now, here’s a question for you: in that in that Buffalo-Houston game, one of the hidden reasons why the Oilers blew the lead was, and this never gets much attention, their Pro Bowl punter, Greg Montgomery, had a terrible game. So, the Bills always had short field position in the second half. Was there a hidden thing in this game that we haven’t looked at yet, other than the obvious, you know, there were coaching mistakes, player mistakes, like I said, mentally, I mean, from from from just being smart, they didn’t they didn’t do either. They didn’t nobody played smart in that second half, I thought.
Mike Finger: Yeah, and I mean, when you’re looking at hidden stuff, on the stage of the NBA Finals, everything is so magnified. I think it’s it’s not just the, it’s not just the members of the Spurs Insider podcast who are covering this. I’ve seen all kinds of, you know, the coverage is is great of this series when you look around. There are so many good, talented, hardworking people in the media around the league, and it’s fun to to see what people are writing and pointing out. And, you look at how the three-point shooting fell apart. You look at the usage of players in the first half when the Spurs are leading by 20, 25, almost 30 points, and you still can’t get more than a couple of minutes at a time for Luke Kornet. I ask you, I’m not doing this to be a jerk or to pick on anybody in particular, but if you can’t find more than two minutes for Luke Kornet when you’re up 25, I just wonder when you can find them. And, and, I’m not saying that because Victor Wembanyama played 43, 44 minutes or whatever, that that cost them the game. But you would just hope that you’d find a little more rest for your guy early in a game. Even though as Mitch, you know, I asked Mitch Johnson about that after the game. He said we have two get two days off after, two days off between 4 and 5, wasn’t worried about rest for the future. But I wonder if you worry about rest for the fourth quarter. And if you’re not thinking about rest for the fourth quarter when you’re up by 25 points, but Victor did look gassed. Well, the Spurs really looked gassed. And go ahead. I just wonder if there’s anything to the substitution patterns.
Tom Orsborn: No, no, that’s that’s an excellent point. And, and I think it may have had its roots back in the Oklahoma City series. I forget which game, but they got out to a big, early lead. And Mitch took, he took Wemby out earlier than usual in the first period, substituted. I think Oklahoma City came back and won that game. And, and to me, the whole thing, his whole thinking with this one, with playing Wemby so much, was, you know, it was an aggressive, very aggressive mindset, and I think they kept jacking up those threes out of the same aggressiveness, greediness in the second half. I I don’t know, but it was just a cluster cluster-you-know-what of mental, mental mistakes.
Mike Finger: And it’s not like, to to your point, Tom, that that’s an excellent, callback to games where the Spurs have had leads and let them slip away because they they didn’t nip it in the bud. They didn’t put them away when they had the chance. And it’s not like, I mean, Mitch Johnson is not an idiot. He’s not out there just wildly, flying by the seat of his pants. Like, the the thought process there clearly is, let’s not even let the Knicks think they have any chance at all to get back into this. Let’s let’s keep this at 25, 30 going into halftime and just be done with it, and not let the, like, it’s no secret that Luke Kornet has not been what he was during the regular season, just like several bench players have not been what they were like in the regular season. So, let’s not even give them hope. And, I understand the thought process behind that, but when when the Knicks continue to have hope anyway, that can catch up to you in the end, that can blow up in your face, and that’s sort of what happened.
Tom Orsborn: Maybe that’s the Greg, yeah, that’s the Greg Montgomery issue here, is he just didn’t have faith in Kornet. I I don’t know. But but you’re right, he is not an idiot [laughter] and he’s, you know, and give the Knicks some credit, man. That that is a tough, tough bunch. Tough bunch.
Mike Finger: Yeah. I guess the other, if we want to get into, just tactical strategic type stuff, at the end, the, and, and we’ll talk about the Fox layup attempt later. That’s that’s an obvious one. That’s not hidden. Somebody in the Spurs locker room the other night was talking about, like brought up the, the Ray Allen shot, which, of course, this loss conjured up images of Ray Allen, and one of the biggest gut-punch losses in Spurs history. And, and the Spurs didn’t have Tim Duncan on the court for that shot, with, he wasn’t there to block Chris Bosh out. The ball gets tipped out to Ray Allen in the corner. The rest is history. Someone in the locker room the other night, a media member from from outside Spurs Insider podcast, said, “Why was De’Aaron Fox on the floor for defense for that last play?” There’s a, there’s, I guess, there’s a bit of a point there. But my answer to that is, or my counter to that is, either way, they’re going to be double-teaming Brunson on that last shot. And I think it was Victor and Victor and Fox double-teaming Brunson. Brunson takes a shot over a double-team, misses the shot, like you expect him to do. And then there’s just kind of that jumble down there, and OG Anunoby makes a play for the ages. And, I mean, yeah, there there are rules in terms of boxing out, and when you don’t have a guy on your back, you look for a guy to block out, and should name your guy, Dylan Harper, whoever, Stephon Castle is blocking out KAT. He can’t be leaving. I think Dylan Harper might be free. But to to expect him to go across the lane and get a body on OG, that might have been what you do in an ideal situation, but it’s hard to just blame that, that guy for that, just all-time play by OG.
Tom Orsborn: He he reacted so quickly and sprinted so quickly into the lane. I mean, it was just a great play by him. But, you know, coming out of that timeout, that’s that’s the game plan probably, double double Brunson, and is that not, is that, is that a dumb thing? I I don’t think so.
Mike Finger: No, I mean, you you you make the best player, the guy who obviously wants to take the shot, make it as difficult as possible for him, and he missed the shot. And, to Brunson’s credit, he shot that early enough to where he allowed for the possibility of that second attempt, which, sitting where where I was, Tom, we were we weren’t sitting together in Madison Square Garden, but just one of the all-time scenes in an in an arena. Just the the pandemonium and the, just holy crap moment. It was that was something to behold, man.
Tom Orsborn: It was, uh, I went down, because of the elevator situation where I was sitting, I needed to leave my seat pretty early. So, as I did in Game 3, me and former Express-News colleague Melissa Rohlin, we, we went to the elevator and got down to the media room, at the end of the third quarter. And it was, sad to say, [laughter] but there was a lot of cheering down there, too. Uh, you know, no cheering in the press box, but cheering in the media room is okay, I guess. So, but it was a lot of Knicks, a lot of Knicks staffers, a lot of Knicks employees, that were were going nuts, and, you know, you know, who can blame them?
Mike Finger: The scene afterwards, and we’ve all, you and I both been through the bowels of Madison Square Garden many times, and there’s hallways to and fro, and, and all kinds of people coming through there. It remind Mitch Johnson’s postgame, which is in a temporary-type room that’s kind of curtained off, and it doesn’t have the typical walls that you have in, in media rooms because they’re trying to make space for, for all the media, and, and all the chairs that go in these rooms. But my point in bringing up the curtains and the temporary thing is, there’s people still screaming, and just so many people going through there. What was that, 20, 30 minutes after the game ends? Yes, it reminded me of covering a college game of, like, I would have, I I remember one in particular of, like, Texas losing to Baylor in Waco at the old Floyd Casey Stadium. And when you go to, to road press conferences after college football games, a lot of times there’s, there’s kind of like haphazard, temporary-type setups for, for press conferences, and fans are just they’re screaming. And it creates this surreal environment where the coach, and in this case, Mitch Johnson is trying to answer questions about how he screwed up, or how the Spurs blew this 29-point lead, how, how it all fell apart. And he can’t hear the questions. And you can’t hear, even with a microphone and, and speakers, like, the, the noise in there is so loud from celebration, even, you know, 20 minutes after the game, that it, it’s just, you’re like, “Is this real?”
Tom Orsborn: Yeah.
Mike Finger: Um, and, and to, to just imagine, as, as positive as you were to start this podcast, Tom, how you get over just the emotional, just gut punch of that game. It’s, it’s going to be quite a task for these guys, because they were crushed that night, as obviously they would be. And, uh, I, I don’t know how they’re young, they’re resilient, they have Tom Orsborn-like serenity most of the time, [laughter] but this is going to be a task against a team that’s, that’s the best team they played in the playoffs.
Tom Orsborn: They they, um, well, a couple of couple of thoughts. Yeah, I had the lead-off question to Mitch, and he had to lean in, [laughter] and, you know, “Excuse me, what?” And, yeah, uh, you know, down there in the media room, well, I was making my way from the media room to the, uh, press conference room, there the the flag bearers for the Knicks, you know, the guys that run out with the flags and all that stuff, they’re coming in, and one guy was just out of control, just so out of control. [laughter] It, uh, and you talk about surreal. It’s like, I haven’t seen a human being react like that, uh, ever, I think. He was just, uh, his it was just something to behold. But, um, yeah, uh, okay. Yes, they were crushed, yes, naturally. But I saw some good signs. Nobody nobody skipped their media obligations, and that’s not I’m not throwing shade at Wemby at all there, but, uh, they all they, you know, the guys who needed to talk talked, you know. And that’s that’s always a good sign, too. They, you know, and I think that’s the youth comes into play here. These guys, you know, Steph, uh, Steph, Dylan, Wemby, um, you know, they’re young, they’re young. They they can bounce back better than us old guys, right, Mike?
Mike Finger: Yeah, and I was thinking, um, I, I mentioned this in the column, um, that was filed at, uh, 4:00-something AM, [laughter] uh, after that game. I went, I went took way too long to, to file that. But, um, you look back at the Ray Allen game, which I think is the only comparison. You can go back farther to, to, to gut-punch games in Spurs playoff history from the Rod Strickland behind-the-back pass to, um, you know, the you go back to, like, the Washington Bullets series way back in the day, there’s some devastating losses there. This is one at the NBA Finals where you pretty much have a game won and then you and then you have it lost. There’s two. It’s on this level of a stage, it’s, it’s Ray Allen and it’s, it’s this one.
Tom Orsborn: Ray Allen’s number one, yes.
Mike Finger: Ray Allen’s number one because if he doesn’t make that shot, the Spurs are NBA champions. Like, it’s that simple.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah.
Mike Finger: Um, this one, if the Spurs if OG Anunoby doesn’t make that shot, I would posit, Tom, that the Spurs are favorites in this series because they’ve just won two in a row, they have home-court advantage, and the Knicks have to be thinking, “We, we have blown this already.” The Knicks are devastated.
Tom Orsborn: Yes.
Mike Finger: Um, so, this is a this, if Ray Allen is one, then this one’s 1A, 1B. Um, what I was going to say is, the team that endured the Ray Allen shot has three future Hall of Famers, has Tim Duncan, has Manu Ginobili, has Tony Parker. Um, they have the chance to come back for a winner-take-all Game 7 a couple of nights later at Miami. They they are led by a Hall of Fame coach in Gregg Popovich. They are they are full of experience, championship metal, all that type of stuff, and they couldn’t handle it. Um, they, you know, the the guys from Pop to Manu to Tim, all of them over the years would say that was as, as big of a, of a, of a, of a, of a just blow that they had taken, and, and, and and it wrecked them mentally. And, uh, I’m not trying to be overly negative here, but if those guys couldn’t handle it, [laughter] it’s going to, and they couldn’t win the one game they needed, um, I’m not saying this Spurs team can’t do it, but now the Spurs have to win three of those in a row. It’s a tall, tall order.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, but they were in that game.
Mike Finger: They were. And, I’m not saying the Spurs are going to come back and get blown out on Saturday.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah.
Mike Finger: But it’s, it’s tough, man.
Tom Orsborn: It’s tough. I, I’m, I’m going to stick with, uh, I like their attitude. But, uh, I, I just I see good signs. I see good signs. So, um, back to Fox.
Mike Finger: Yeah.
Tom Orsborn: I know it was an obvious thing, but, uh, the layup, uh, you want to delve into that?
Mike Finger: Yeah, and, uh, here’s, here’s the problem with just watching sports, covering sports, uh, consuming sports in the year of our Lord 2026. [laughter] It’s a dumb play, right? Like, it’s, it’s not the smart play. To, to, like, like, what, what you’re supposed to do there is dribble the ball out, let yourself get fouled, cuz that, that accomplishes two things. It, it takes time, it takes precious seconds off the clock, and every second matters there. Um, if you’re a good free throw shooter, you’re going to get the two points anyway. And, uh, it removes the possibility of exactly what happened: not getting the layup, um, getting blocked at the rim, what have you. It’s a dumb play. There’s no counter to that. “Oh, maybe it was the smart play.” No, it was the dumb play. But what I was getting to, in consuming sports in the year of our Lord 2026 is, it becomes you can’t just say that it’s a dumb play. Because now we’re supposed to say it’s the dumbest play of all-time, and there’s no excuse, and was he on the take? And I’m getting, like, conspiracy theories in, in the email, and it’s just like, and he should be, “This is why the Spurs can’t win with Fox, and this is why he’s, this is why they have to trade him, and this is why, uh, they never should have traded for him in the first place,” and blah, blah, blah. You can’t just have a simple, uh, uh, declarative, “It was a dumb play” thing and move on. You have to make it into this grand, uh, gaffe, this grand, just, just awful, awful, awful decision that’s inexcusable. And I, I just, I, I hate that, because a guy’s allowed to have a, a, to make a mistake without it being like a, a mandate on his entire career. Um, it, it, it sort of bothers me. And so, the danger in, in a podcast like this where we’re talking about what De’Aaron Fox should and shouldn’t have done is, um, people want to turn it into a, a thing that it’s not, which, like, you look Mitch Johnson has said this over and over again all season, Tom, when the Spurs are at their best, De’Aaron Fox is at his best.
Tom Orsborn: Yes, and, uh, I think that’s still the case in the playoffs. I think that’s still the case, still could be the case moving forward. Now, there’s the, I don’t want to turn this into a, a grand conversation about the future of the Spurs, but is it likely that Dylan Harper will be the starting point guard for the Spurs in some future season? Will the Spurs move on from De’Aaron Fox in some future season? Sure. But, um, yeah, I don’t think it’s because of one play. And, uh, and, and to get into, I know I rambled there, but to get into the details of that play, he looks over his shoulder, I, I’ve watched the replay a bunch of times, he does see OG coming. Um, and I think that he should have been savvy enough to realize that he needed to dribble that out. Um, I don’t know if you have anything to add on any of that, but that’s where I am on that.
Tom Orsborn: Since we’re coming back from New York and still kind of in a Law & Order mindset, [laughter] uh, yeah, know that’s one of your favorites, and I, I enjoy it, too. I’m going to play advocate. I’m going to play defense attorney here, public defender, you know. [laughter] Slumping around the halls of, uh, of the courthouse, and I’m going to take this case.
Mike Finger: Okay.
Tom Orsborn: Um, you know, he was aggressive. He wanted to make a play to end it, to end it. [laughter] You know, and he’s, as we all say, the adjective that’s, uh, always applied to him, speedy guard, one of the speediest guards. And maybe that’s hubris, you know, maybe he, he thought, “I can outrun this, this guy who’s playing really great, having a great, uh, great game.” And he made that calculation instantly. So, I’m not saying it was the right calculation, but I’m defending the calculation. He, he, he factored all that in there and said, “I’m going to get this done right now, here and now, in the year of our Lord, [laughter] I’m going to get it done. I’m going to, I’m going to use my speed, I’m going to get that layup and get it done.” And, and he had said, uh, you know, I mean, they were missing shots. They’re not making plays. They’re, you know, he, he took it upon himself. I’m defending him. I’m not going to damn him for it.
Mike Finger: It, it is, and they’re in the freaking NBA Finals, and he’s a big reason for it. Right, it is defensible in that regard. Using the word defensible doesn’t mean I think he was right.
Tom Orsborn: Right.
Mike Finger: I think it’s still a mistake.
Tom Orsborn: Okay.
Mike Finger: But it is, especially with you as his public defender, Tom. [laughter] I’ll take the plea. I think that it’s, I think that there, you at least make the jury pause a little bit and consider. You can convict him of making the wrong play, but not of, of making of, of like, uh, sabotaging. Like, it’s, it’s not so, so egregious. Right, that you think, “What in the hell was he thinking?” I don’t know. There’s, there’s, there’s nuance to this stuff, and I just hate the idea that instead of just saying the guy screwed up, that you say he’s a terrible player, a choke artist, and the Spurs should never employ him again. I think there’s a, a spot in between those two takes, is, is my point there, yeah.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, there is gray there, yeah.
Mike Finger: Yes. Um, yeah, um, what, what else do we need to cover? This is a bonus edition that the people wanted. Um, what, what are you looking for in Game- Here’s the thing. I’m rambling again. If the Spurs get out to a lead in Game 5, which they get out to in every game against the Knicks, [laughter] which, it’s, it’s crazy. Like, how do you, how, what’s the mood, what’s the vibe? What are you looking for to, to, to, to, to tell you that this one’s going to be different, that they’re going to be able to hold on in the Frost Bank Center?
Tom Orsborn: Man, just play smart. Play smart and, um, you know, rely on what got you here. Dance with what brung ya. Dance with who brung ya, all that, all those clichés, just, just play like they played all year. And, um, you know, just dig deep, you know, yada yada yada. [laughter] But I think it’s doable. That’s my whole point. I think it’s doable. These young guys, these young guys, uh, can, can brush it off, and, um, you know, they’re competitive. They’re, they’re extremely competitive bunch. Stephon Castle, guy’s a warrior. He’ll, he’ll show up. Yeah.
Mike Finger: One game at a time.
Tom Orsborn: One game at a time.
Mike Finger: It’s all you can do. What can you do beyond that, Mr. Serenity?
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Finger: Uh, we will be back after Game 5, early next week. Might be talking about a Game 6, might be talking about an offseason. Either way, keep your gratitude higher than your expectations, take care of each other, and keep it real.
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