点击查看原文：Giannis rumors and San Antonio in the playoffs (sort of)
Giannis rumors and San Antonio in the playoffs (sort of)
Columnist Mike Finger and beat reporter Jeff McDonald discuss the Spurs success even as they have been without Victor Wembanyama and Stephon Castle. Also, should the Spurs trade for Giannis? And could they win the NBA Cup?
Suggested reading:
3 Takeaways as Dylan Harper lifts Spurs over Pelicans
To advance to Las Vegas, Spurs must end their Luka Doncic futility
Stephon Castle returns to the Spurs as timeline clears up for Victor Wembanyama
How the Spurs’ veterans and rookies are learning from each other
Victor Wembanyama, Stephon Castle back (at practice)
Here is the transcript of the podcast:
[music fades in]
Narrator: From a highly secured network of top-secret locations across North America, this is the Spurs Insider, NBA Cup edition.
Mike Finger: I am Mike Finger, joined as always by Express News Spurs beat writer, Jeff McDonald, who’s been on the road a long time. Not as long as the Spurs have been. The local Cagers are about to head to their ninth different North American city in 18 days. It’s been quite a trip so far and it’s about to hit its peak. After six years in the wilderness, the Spurs are about to play a playoff game, Jeff.
It’s the NBA Cup, yes. It’s not the official NBA postseason, no. But it’s a playoff game on Wednesday against the Los Angeles Lakers. Winner go home. Uh, are you ready?
Jeff McDonald: Settle down. Settle down. Just settle down.
Mike Finger: Don’t rain on people’s parade. It’s a play, it’s a playoff game.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, okay. Okay, you’re right. I mean, you know, they’re playing for stakes. That’s something. That’s something, but it’s uh, it’s it’s gonna be something.
Mike Finger: We start, I tried to start this podcast on such a high note and then you just immediately brought us down.
Jeff McDonald: I’ve been on the road too long, man, to to uh, you know, be effervescent this morning. I’m sorry.
Mike Finger: How long, how how are uh, I’m not going to ask how you’re holding up, but uh we’re recording this the morning after the Spurs held on for a riveting victory at the Smoothie King Center in New Orleans, Louisiana. Uh, a game that started as a route, turned into a nail biter and concluded with the rookie Dylan Harper outshining another rookie, Derek Queen. Uh did that didn’t do anything for your your effervescence?
Jeff McDonald: Uh, no, it didn’t. But one thing I will say about your local Cagers, and this is probably a sign of how far they’ve come. You know, back when they were winning 22 games a year, um, you know, you just take the wins where you can get them, and however you can get them, and however ugly they look and however they come, you just say, hey, a win’s a win. Uh, I don’t think they were very satisfied with that win over over New Orleans, um, last night. I I think, um, you know, New Orleans is three and 23 and they don’t have Zion Williamson and the Spurs were ahead by 25 points, ahead by 20 at halftime. And, um, you know, the Spurs weren’t really celebrating that one. Like they, I I watched them come off the floor through that tunnel towards the locker room at the Smoothie King Center after the game, not one smile. Not one single player, coach, staff member uh had a smile on their face. Now, they loosened up later. Keldon got the music going in the locker room to where you can’t even do interviews uh because it’s so loud. But, um, they they were not satisfied with that win. And I think that’s the sign of uh this team expects more of itself now, and I think that’s a good thing.
Mike Finger: One thing that outsiders might not have expected about of of this team, even if the Spurs expected it, was when one Victor Wembanyama was uh declared to be out with an injury for at least two weeks, if not more. Um, I believe that was are we at 11 games ago, 10 games ago? I don’t think anybody thought that…
Jeff McDonald: How many? 11 now, I think they’re eight and three.
Mike Finger: 11. I don’t think anybody predicted that they would go eight and three without Victor Wembanyama, but that’s what the Spurs have done. Stephon Castle returned to action last night. He missed a lot of that. But in in terms of expectations and exceeding them, that I think is unquestionably an example of doing more than people thought you would do. Uh, it’s some of the games, I know people are upset about letting one slip away against the Suns, letting one slip away against Minnesota, that a third quarter that Jeff will talk about a little bit, um, kind of getting out of control at Cleveland. But big picture-wise, looking back at 11 games without the big fella and going eight and three, including a stretch of like I I mentioned earlier, nine different cities in 18 days, all all that put together to to be where the Spurs are right now, heading into this NBA Cup playoff game in Los Angeles, pretty, pretty good.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, they’ve done a good job of holding the fort and you’re right. I did not see that coming. I thought when uh Victor went out, and then Steph went out the very next game back in November, I thought that well, that’s that’s going to be tough. Like they’re, I mean, not that it was going to sink their season necessarily because it is a long season, but I was like, if they don’t get where they’re wanting to go this year, it’s probably going to be this next stretch where they just don’t have the the bodies to to beat some teams. And lo and behold they did. And, um, like you mentioned the ones they quote unquote let slip away, but um, there are ones like that game in Orlando that uh, again, I think I went on the podcast the week before, a couple days before that game in Orlando back-to-back coming from San Antonio, going east, and said that game is unwinnable. There is no way the the local Cagers are going to go to Orlando, which is a pretty good team, on the second night of a back-to-back with all the travel they’ve been doing. Like they’re going to be worn out. They’re going to get uh, you know, smashed by the Magic. They did not. They went to Orlando and won the game. So they’ve won some games that I don’t think anybody really expected them to win. And if if, you know, I think the players are one thing, they have, you know, NBA players have a rational confidence, but people around the team, I don’t think they thought they were going to win that Orlando game too just because it was set up schedule-wise uh uh to lose.
So when they went into Cleveland like two nights later and and laid that third quarter egg, it was sort of like, ah, that’s where it all, like all the travel, all the lack of bodies, all the the tiredness, that’s kind of where you saw it come to bear. Um, and they’re still not out of it.
Mike Finger: Yeah, when you’re starting when you’re starting Bismack Biyombo against Evan Mobley, like that’s you’re you’re you’re usually not expecting to win that game.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, because that that was the other thing. It wasn’t just, um, in Cleveland, it wasn’t just Victor’s out and uh Steph was out, it’s also Luke Kornet is out. And you have no seven-footers and that was the first game where, um, you know, the Spurs have played without Victor before this year and they played without Luke before this year, but they have not played without them both at the same time. They haven’t had them both out, and it was just a a rim parade, man. 80 paint points for the Cavs. Like there’s just no winning a game that way. So…
Mike Finger: And Stephon Castle didn’t play in that game either. I mean, all these games individually, you you you as someone who follows the team, you think, oh, maybe they can win that game, whatever. But going into the season, if you would say they’re going to go to Cleveland, a team that was one of the best uh uh teams in the Eastern Conference last year, without Victor Wembanyama and without Luke Kornet, without Stephon Castle, who’s arguably your best defender, for sure your best perimeter defender, um, that was not a game you should expect to win. Anyway.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, and you know, you know, fans don’t like to hear quote-unquote excuses or whatever. They don’t care who’s out or what the schedule’s like, but the schedule has been no joke lately. I mean, this is this has been like a rodeo trip. It’s worse than the rodeo trip.
Mike Finger: It’s worse than what the Rodeo Trip is now.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, yeah, correct. Correct. And coming back, I mean, they did play the one home game, but they were here for one game against Memphis, won that game, but it’s like, I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but it’s like in the span of a month from mid-November to to um, mid-December, if, you know, they’re fortunate enough to go all the way to the end of the NBA Cup, they’ll be home, have been home for a grand total of 36 hours around that Memphis game. It’s just been, it’s just been a flight or a game, a flight or a game in a different city every day and it doesn’t end. Like they they survived that game last night in New Orleans and got on a plane to uh to LA and got in about, um, I mean it’d be 2:00 p.m. Pacific or 2:00 a.m. Pacific. That’s 4:00 a.m. where they left from, like where your body clock is. And then they’re going to, I suppose everyone’s still asleep over there in LA. I suppose and then you just take today off and then you’re going to get up and play the freaking Lakers on Wednesday. And I’ll tell you what, that game seems like it’s going to be unwinnable.
You’re going for three.
It’s gonna be…
Mike Finger: Jeff McDonald going for the hat trick.
Jeff McDonald: Uh…
Mike Finger: That the the Nuggets game was unwinnable, the Magic game was unwinnable, and now the Lakers game is unwinnable.
Jeff McDonald: I just don’t see it. And we can talk about, you know, who might or might not play in that game soon. I think that’s what the listeners want to know about. Um, but you know, just the travel is adding up. It is adding up and there’s no, you can you can say, well, they’re NBA players, they make millions of dollars, suck it, it just, you know, they fly on, they don’t, they don’t fly coach. You can say all those things, but like teams don’t play their best basketball in these sort of circumstances. And I was talking about it with a couple people around the team and like, we love the NBA Cup. It’s fun. It’s a fun thing to do uh in the middle of the season, gives you something to play for, makes it a little more exciting. But it does create some some weirdness around the schedule. And that’s part of the reason this trip is so long. Like this, I I haven’t looked this up, but I probably it’s true. Got to be the only road trip in NBA history that includes both…
…and Los Angeles on it. You know, like…
Mike Finger: It’s just… but that’s happened before.
Jeff McDonald: I don’t know. They don’t they don’t generally don’t do that. And it’s all because of the NBA Cup and it screws up your home game. Like now they’re going to you’re going to you might have to push the Washington game back. That’s at home if you go very far. Like it just creates uh a lot of logistical nightmares for for teams. And so, you know, it’s not going anywhere and all in all, nobody’s complaining about it when you have half a million dollars on the line. But um…
Mike Finger: Is it half a million? Yeah, half a million dollars…
Jeff McDonald: Half a million per player.
Mike Finger: Per player on the line.
Jeff McDonald: Like, like people will do that for a half a…
Mike Finger: Quarter million for per two-way player.
Jeff McDonald: So… oh yeah.
Mike Finger: That was the in the only home game of this stretch, that was big topic of conversation in the uh the locker room after a game. Riley Menix’s uh pointing out that he gets 250k if if the Spurs go all the way.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, those guys, the Riley Menixes of the world were in Austin last year while the Spurs were kind of, you know, they didn’t make the quarterfinals, but I guess they had a a winner you’re out game in the in the group play and they were all talking about how they watched it uh in Austin together and we’re all cheering and…
Mike Finger: Nothing to sneeze at involved.
Jeff McDonald: Anyway.
Mike Finger: Well, while while we were discussing your um your your potential to be wrong a third consecutive time on the unwinnable games, I I do feel um in the interest of the listeners to to point out that you’ve had a pretty good track record, Jeff McDonald, so far this season in making sort of public quote unquote guesses about the Spurs injury situation. Um, I I remember you making a a quote unquote guess about the return of De’Aaron Fox a week or more in advance and guessing that he might open at home in a game against the Pelicans, I think it was on a Saturday night. And that was exactly what happened. I think you sort of guessed the return of uh of Dylan Harper and that’s what happened. And a while back, much to the consternation of uh the the the NBA fans at large, Spurs fans nationwide, you had pointed out that Victor Wembanyama probably wasn’t going to return um, in early December, the first week of December, the first day that he was going to be eligible. You guessed it would be at some point between the uh Lakers quarter, NBA Cup quarterfinal game and Christmas. And with one game to go, you’re still have a chance to be correct there. And this is the transition into will he or will he not play against the Lakers. But I just want the I just want the listeners to appreciate that when Jeff Jeff McDonald makes a quote unquote guess about this first injury situation, he’s he’s he generally kind of knows what he’s talking about.
Jeff McDonald: I I see what you’re getting at. I see what you’re asking about. I know it’s what everybody listening to this podcast wants to know. Um, but I I really don’t think that Jordan McLaughlin is playing in LA.
Yeah. I think he’s still going to be out.
No, no, but I I I do think it’s it’s um…
I mean, you’re you’re around the team. The Express News is at all these games. Um, it’s not like we’re just throwing stuff against the wall. Um, you’ve you’ve tried to explain to people um, you’ve tried to give people timelines and I just I just thought for all the the grief that I give you on this podcast over the years, it’s kind of a tip of the uh tip of the hat to say that I think you you generally lead the listeners in your own cantankerous, uh sometimes obnoxious way in in the right direction. So, good job, sir.
Jeff McDonald: I appreciate, I appreciate that, I think. I think that’s the compliment. Anyway, well, let’s get into it. Let’s get into it. Um, I still don’t think Victor’s playing in LA, but he’s on the trip.
Mike Finger: I take back what everything I just said, it could it could it could throw it out the window if the Spurs put out their injury report on Tuesday afternoon and say, Victor Wembanyama available.
Jeff McDonald: Which they won’t. Correct.
Mike Finger: But that’s the risk. You’re taking a risk.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah. I I I don’t I don’t think he’s playing in LA, but he is on the trip. He he and Steph and uh McLaughlin joined the trip mid-progress. There was an extra off day uh here in New Orleans. The Spurs held a practice and those three showed up. It was kind of a uh, it was kind of built up as a surprise to the other guys, like they walked in the gym because you know, they weren’t traveling with the team at that point. They walked into the gym at Tulane and it was a big like uh celebratory moment that those guys were here. Victor did practice, like he’s on the floor practicing. Um, he went through shoot around yesterday. Um, after shoot around, you know, after we had done our our little interviews with uh Stephon Castle who was cleared at shoot around to play against the Pelicans, we were told uh, you know, Vic Vic was lacing up his shoes, you know, like he’s about to do something and we were told snap your pictures and get out basically. Like you don’t get to watch this. But he played a little two-on-two um behind closed doors, we did not get to witness it. Um, and we asked Mitch if he’s on the flight to uh LA and he Mitch said he better be, basically as a direct quote. Like I’m assuming he’s going to be, he better be. Um, I don’t know that all that adds up to him playing. I do have a question of like if you’re completely sure he’s not playing in LA, why even take him there? Um, so so that if if you’re looking for any kind of glass half full um indication, um he’s there, so he’s not ruled out, but I just think they’re going to be wanting to give him him one more game at least. And the the the issue is, or not the issue, but the reason is the schedule. You win that game in LA, you get three games off till you have to play in Vegas. You lose, you get five days off until you uh play a home game uh on the following Monday. And if you’re the Spurs medical people, you’re going, man, we could give him three to five more days to ramp up. And that’s just way too tantalizing for for a medical a medical team. Um, they they don’t care about the NBA Cup. I don’t know how the money works. Does the medical team get money for the cup? I don’t know. I don’t know. I apologize. I don’t know the answer to that. But they their job is just to um say when’s the best time for him to come back. And and I I don’t think they’re going to want to play him one game and then he sits around for three days or sits around for five days. Um, when they play him, they want to play him and get it going.
Mike Finger: So I what you mentioned earlier about him about him going two-on-two yesterday, um that’s not the last step typically on these long layoffs. It goes one on one, two on two. Thinking back to De’Aaron Fox, thinking back to Dylan Harper, you you there’s the ramp up to from two-on-two to to the eventually the five-on-five. And the five-on-five happens before the five-on-five in the games. And maybe Victor will skip it. Again, he’s on the trip like you said. Um that means that and and um, you know, Mitch Johnson has not completely ruled him out, but this is knowing knowing the Spurs, knowing how they usually handle these things, knowing what Jeff just explained about the schedule, the advantages of sitting one extra game, then you have between three and five days to ramp up to more five-on-five action in practice. And this isn’t just a a situation where he’s been out a week and needs to ramp up. He’s been out what three weeks and needs to ramp up. So I’m I would tend to agree with Jeff again on uh on his expectation for this. I will say though, when you put Victor Wembanyama on that plane to a game where the entire country, nay, the world will be watching, I know he’s going to be doing some campaigning. And that’s that’s kind of the the situation you’re setting up there when when you bring Victor with you to Los Angeles, you’re going to have your franchise player really pushing to play. And uh I don’t know. Maybe maybe he’ll win an argument there. Or maybe he’ll see the maybe he’ll see the big picture too. Um, who knows.
Jeff McDonald: There’s going to be there’s going to be three voices in that conversation, three main voices, and it’s going to be Victor who who absolutely wants to play and probably thinks he can. Um, there’s going to be the league who definitely wants Victor Wembanyama in the NBA Cup games. Like they’re the ones that care about the NBA Cup the absolute most. And I’m not going to say they’re already leaning on the Spurs. I think that’s probably too strong, but they are asking questions. You know, the league office is already asking like, is Vic going to be there? Is he going to play? We need to know. Um, they they they have a vested interest. And then there’s the Spurs medical staff who’s, you know, vested interest is making sure nothing bad happens to them. And I don’t know, man, you don’t want to be the doctor who signs off on Victor Wembanyama playing in Los Angeles and God forbid, something horrible happens to him and everybody’s asking, look, he could got to had five more days and you signed off. What are you doing? Like those guys the we know doctors, everyone here I’m not going to say everybody, but most of us have been to a doctor before and we’re they they’re always going to air on the side of uh of of absolute caution. And if there’s a 5% risk of something, they’re going to be a little bit um cautious about it. And so at some point, all those factors are going to converge, all three of those voices are going to converge and you’re going to come to a compromise at some point, um, but I don’t know if it’s Wednesday. We’ll see. I I I think as this goes along, I mean, the fact that he’s practicing, he’s on the floor. If you get past Wednesday, he doesn’t play, I he might be in play for those games in Vegas if they win. He might be in play if they lose, he might be in play for that home game that they’re going to schedule um, on on Monday at home. That becomes a different kind of question because it could be against Oklahoma City and do you really want your first game back to be against those monsters? Maybe not. Um, but I he is getting closer and I know people are like hate that because he’s been getting closer for three weeks. But I mean, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. I’ll put it that way.
Mike Finger: Um, I would add a a fourth voice or at least expand one of those voices. This is um sort of a a a subtle observation here, but it’s not just Spurs doctors in a vacuum without, I mean, the the the the Spurs organization has a voice in this too in terms of they’re telling the the doctors, hey, we have the big picture in mind. I think in some organizations, the franchise might be more inclined to say, hey doctors, what can we do to get this guy back as soon as possible? I think the Spurs have been doing this a long time.
I mean, I I I think back way back to the year 2000 when Tim Duncan was trying to get back for a playoff series uh the year after the title when his knee was sore and the Spurs made the decision in conjunction with their medical staff that no, we don’t need to push him in this first round playoff series, which the Spurs lost. Um, and I think that’s been a constant through the years is, yes, the medical staff is making medical decisions, but they also understand that they’re not getting that pressure to get guys back as soon as possible. If that makes any sense.
Jeff McDonald: Do you know who…
Mike Finger: This is something this is something that’s worked really well by the way. Not only in the in the big picture, uh an organization that’s won five championships and been uh contender for a long time and has made it through Tim Duncan issues and Manu Ginobili issues and Tony Parker issues, um but also this year. I mean, for all the the bellyaching about how the Spurs just aren’t rushing these guys back and they’re sitting Stephon Castle too long and they’re setting they’re sitting Dylan Harper too long, they’re sitting Victor Wembanyama too long. This team that has missed the playoffs six consecutive years is in the fifth seed in the Western Conference. They’ve won eight of their last 11 games. Like it’s hard to argue with this and say that this this handling of this is is way too conservative when it’s working out pretty dang well.
Jeff McDonald: And one thing fans, some fans might not understand, maybe I should clarify this, um the one person who has zero say on when Victor Wembanyama comes back is Mitch Johnson, the head coach. And that’s that’s true of 30 NBA franchises. The NBA the the head coach has zero say. Um he’s sitting around like the rest of us waiting for them to come to him and say, okay, you can play Victor now. And I guarantee when that happens, Mitch Johnson will put him on the floor. He’s not going to say no, Victor’s not playing. But he has no say over it at all. And somewhere along the line since I’ve been covering the NBA, that has changed.
Mike Finger: Yeah. Well, and another change there is, um, Gregg Popovich last year would have told you the same thing, I just play guys whenever I’m told they can play. I think he was sort of underselling himself then because he was what, president of basketball operations and and uh he he was sort of part of the the the front office, not necessarily the front office, but he he made big picture organizational decisions. Um, and so, yes, like like you’re saying, 20 years ago, it was more up to Pop because that’s just how organizations worked and how the NBA worked. Now, the the medical staffs have more autonomy, but also this is an organizational decision. Uh, it it’s it’s an organizational decision with that’s heavily influenced by what the medical team is saying. It’s not up to one head coach. Um and I think that’s that’s important to note.
So, and and again, how could you argue with it? Considering where the Spurs are right now, considering how they’ve made it through uh sitting out there highest paid player, De’Aaron Fox for the first part of the season, sitting the reigning rookie of the year, Stephon Castle for a couple of weeks, um, sitting the number two pick in the NBA draft, Dylan Harper for a couple of weeks, now sitting out the uh the franchise player, Victor Wembanyama. They’re they’re still way ahead of where they we thought they’d be after what 23 games.
Jeff McDonald: So, yeah, the the fun part of the whole saga is uh on social media where you’ll get uh guys or people, I don’t know if they’re all guys, um who have no…
Mike Finger: they’re not all people.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, that’s a good good point. Have no medical degree, have never met Victor Wembanyama, sure haven’t seen his MRI results, have not seen him work out, has not seen any of his rehab process and they’ll get on and the they’ll get on social media and say the Spurs are dumb, their doctors are idiots, why are they being so overly cautious with this guy? And it’s just like, let the experts do their job, man. Like, they know more than you uh about medical science one, but specifically about what’s going on with Victor. And I guarantee you they’re not holding Victor out like on purpose or to be mean to the fans or to make the fans mad. Like they want Vic to play too.
Mike Finger: I also…
Jeff McDonald: Go ahead.
Mike Finger: Yeah, there’s just there’s no rhyme or reason in just sitting Victor like they’re not tanking. It’s not like they’re tanking.
Jeff McDonald: This is this is the point that I was going to make is that um, it’s I don’t advocate for blindly trusting whatever an NBA team or a public official or anybody that journalists cover tell you. Like I’m not saying that, oh, always defer to the experts. We don’t know. It’s it’s important to ask questions. The question I would ask here is, what is the upside? What kind of grand conspiracy do you think is being hidden here? Like what is what would the Spurs’ motivation be? Just think about this. What would the Spurs’ motivation be to not play Victor Wembanyama, their best player in games they want to win? I mean, I can answer that. Just just think about what you’re asking here. I’m I’m not for I’m not saying trust the Spurs at all costs and that they should never be questioned. But but if you’re going to come and and demand uh or or or accuse an organization of hiding something, you shouldn’t you ask like why they’d be hiding it?
Jeff McDonald: I know the answer to this question. Okay. Here’s your here’s the conspiracy theory.
Mike Finger: You you subject yourself to the to the madness more than I do. I try to stay away from that stuff. So please explain that to me.
Jeff McDonald: It’s going because it will eventually it will keep Victor from reaching 65 games so he doesn’t win awards and so they don’t have to pay him the Supermax. But more than that, more than that, Victor’s on board with it because uh, you know, it’ll it’ll save money to to pay uh other players and help him build a team down the road. That’s the conspiracy theory. By the way, I need to say this, that is complete bunk. That’s not true, everybody, not true. But that is the conspiracy theory.
Mike Finger: People don’t believe that. I I’ve I choose to believe that those are bots.
Jeff McDonald: I don’t know. Have you met Americans?
Mike Finger: I don’t meet as many of them as I I I stay away.
Jeff McDonald: They believe, somebody believes anything.
Mike Finger: You’re talking about accounts with a bunch of numbers at the end of their name online. I don’t think they’re real Americans.
Jeff McDonald: I mean what about the quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers? That sounds like something he would uh he would believe, you know?
Mike Finger: Yeah.
Jeff McDonald: Maybe they don’t believe…
Mike Finger: But but even he understands salary cap well enough to know like what that’s not… look at look at the Oklahoma City Thunder by the way. As a just as off the top of my head counter to this ridiculousness.
Jeff McDonald: We we don’t really have to address this conspiracy theory. It is it’s completely ridiculous.
Mike Finger: They they are set up to dominate the NBA for the next millennium. Um they they just won the NBA title. They’re on pace to have the best record in the history of the league. They’ve lost one game in the past seven months. Um they they have a chance to get the number one pick in next year’s draft, by the way, because the Clippers are a disaster and the Clippers gave them a a unprotected pick that’s about to turn out pretty dang well. And they maxed out their guys. They maxed out three guys and things are things are fine. You you should look forward to maxing out guys. That means you’ve done something well. The the Spurs aren’t going to try to not max out Victor Wembanyama. Victor Wembanyama is not going to try to not max himself out. That’s absurd. I can’t believe that people think that. I I choose to believe that they don’t.
Jeff McDonald: I can’t believe we just spent five minutes on that.
Mike Finger: Well, to to go back to my original point, there is no there is no reason to think that the Spurs are hiding something here. Um, that the Spurs are are are intentionally holding him out of games that he could otherwise play in. Cuz what is the upside?
Jeff McDonald: It really it really goes without saying, but we we said it anyway. Yeah. Okay. Well, before we before we wrap up, we’re going people are going to be mad if we don’t talk about Giannis.
Mike Finger: Yeah. Are we letting them the listenership down if we don’t address that at all?
Jeff McDonald: I I I I think you’re right. That’s that’s a good looking out. It’s been a long week. Games all over the country. So much happening on happening to the Spurs, the NBA Cup coming up. I’d forgotten about the uh that we needed to address the Giannis. Giannis has been since our last podcast. So you brought it up, go ahead. Give us your take.
Mike Finger: Um, my take is they’re not trading for Giannis.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah. How about that?
Mike Finger: Yeah.
Jeff McDonald: And to to expand a little bit, and I mean this in a complimentary way. I don’t want to ruffle any feathers, but the Spurs are only going to trade with you if they can fleece you. So if they can get Giannis for nothing, sure. Kind of like how they got De’Aaron Fox last year without giving up anything that they really cared about. Sure. But they’re not going to give up if you start talking about Stephon Castle and especially Dylan Harper, I don’t think they’re interested. I think there are timeline issues with that. I think there’s an an idea that what is the point in giving up guys that are going to help you, you know, five years from now to come in second place to Oklahoma City? Like almost let that let that dynasty sort of start to fade a little bit before you start going up against it and you know…
Mike Finger: Yep. I wrote about this in the newspaper last week and I mentioned some of those the precise points that you just brought up. Um that the Spurs are trying to own the league from let’s say 2028 onward, 2027 onward. Um they envision themselves as a franchise that when they move into that sparkling new arena across from the Alamodome in downtown San Antonio that they are going to be in the middle of a of a new dynasty, um created in large part by Victor Wembanyama, Stephon Castle, Dylan Harper, maybe De’Aaron Fox is still around, um but definitely those first three. Um and to to skip steps is just something that this organization does not do. And and granted, Giannis is a guy who makes it really tempting to skip steps. Um can just just the thought of him playing alongside Victor Wembanyama just makes you giddy. I mean, how delightful, how entertaining, how amazing would that be to see those two freaks of nature dominate NBA games and play in important NBA playoff series.
But to give up what they think Stephon Castle or Dylan Harper would be for more of a short-term type of window. Giannis is on the back, he’s probably if not past his prime, the the the past his prime portion of his career is coming up soon. Um and so you’d be all the pressure would be to win now. All the pressure would be to win the next few years and maximize this Victor Giannis window while the Oklahoma City Thunder look invincible. I’m not sure that’s the best allocation of resources. I mean, why why not play for the longer window as opposed to the one when you have an all-time franchise at the peak of its powers in Oklahoma City? Um, and and then the to to add to that, well you say you don’t give up Dylan Harper or Stephon Castle, well then why do the Bucks do that? Um the it’s sort of taken as gospel that the Spurs can make as attractive of a a a pitch as any team in the league to the Bucks, but if you look closer, I’m not sure that’s necessarily true because a lot of the picks that the Spurs would be offering, um, would be their own picks, would be the picks of of a team with Victor Wembanyama and Giannis on it. You know, so how how attractive are those going to be? The Spurs do have, um, a Hawks one, which is looking less and less uh attractive because the Hawks are are actually being competently run now. There’s one from the the Mavericks in a few years and a a a I guess a Timberwolves possibility. But the package for Giannis would have to include for the for the Bucks to be interested, um Harper Castle and I just don’t see the Spurs doing that. Um for all the reasons that Jeff spelled out.
Jeff McDonald: And for yeah…
Mike Finger: And and the and and there are just other, I think other teams could could match the Spurs offer if not exceed it, and if teams are matching and or exceeding, Spurs are not the type of franchise that’s going to get into a bidding war for Giannis and overpay. Um, so that’s the explanation.
Jeff McDonald: The other the other point that’s going to happen with Giannis, um if it comes to that, is he’s going to decide where he wants to play, or one or two places where he wants to play. It’s not going to be a 30 team bidding war. It’s going to, it’s much like with De’Aaron Fox who identified I want to come to San Antonio, you guys better figure out how much you can get out of that deal for me. Um, that’s what will happen with with Giannis and I don’t know that he wants to come to San Antonio. I don’t know one way or another.
Mike Finger: Well, the the to devil’s advocate there is that, um, you don’t have to trade a guy where he wants where he wants to go. The exhibit A there was uh Kawhi in Toronto. Like Kawhi did not want to go to Toronto, the Spurs took the best deal they could get.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, those are further between. They are. Because a team is if if Giannis says I’m not coming to play in, uh name a team, Charlotte, I don’t want to play in Charlotte. I’m never going to sign, you can trade me there, but they’re going to have me for three months and I’m a free agent. Charlotte’s not going to give you anything for that. So that’s how it suppresses his value and you the Bucks will end up getting the best value out of uh the place where Giannis wants to go, but it will never be full value because he’s already signaled that’s there a bus. So it’s it’s just, but yeah, they’re not going to trade for him. And people um, like there’s some maybe maybe uh people that aren’t in tune with I don’t know, they’ll be like, you wouldn’t trade Dylan like Dylan Harper would be off the table for Giannis freaking Giannis, you know, like, you wouldn’t do you wouldn’t… And no, I wouldn’t. And it doesn’t mean I think Dylan Harper is going to be a better player than Giannis or is going to be an MVP. I think Dylan Harper can be an all NBA player at some point. But you’re not saying that that that um Dylan Harper is going to be a generational freak. It’s just a timeline thing. You’d rather have, would you rather have 10 years of Dylan Harper uh starting now and through his prime or would you rather have three years of 30-something Giannis, again, going up against that OKC dynasty? And to me, you’re almost kind of doing the best you can now, building what you got, maybe maybe playing that Oklahoma City dynasty with these young guys will will make them tougher, make them better, and then three, four, five, you know, some seasons down the road maybe you can you can knock them off.
And you know, it’s not going to last forever. Oklahoma City it I don’t know how, but…
Mike Finger: It might.
Jeff McDonald: Uh it all, I mean it can, but it all it all, these things always kind of play themselves out.
Mike Finger: Well, I’ve repeated this a bunch on the podcast.
Jeff McDonald: The one the one uh the one the one the one argument I’ve that’s been made to me that I don’t necessarily buy, but I can I can understand is if you have Giannis and Wemby, um maybe that changes how Oklahoma City has to play now. Maybe they don’t get to the paint, so now they become a jump shooting team. Maybe a lot of the things that make them what they are, they have to change and maybe maybe that’s an argument for if we have those two guys, maybe we could beat them now. I don’t know that I necessarily buy it and I’m I’m risk-averse, so I probably wouldn’t do it. But if you wanted to make an argument about why Wemby and Giannis together might be what you need to do to make a dent in that Oklahoma City um monster, I can see where you’re coming from. But I’m I’m on the other side of just there’s no sense in trading a bunch of good stuff to come in second.
Mike Finger: I’ve I’ve repeated this a bunch on the podcast and in the newspaper, uh but it’s worth pointing out again, like the Spurs aren’t going to win this season. Um the just that all the the entire course of NBA history for decades and decades and decades and decades shows you that teams don’t go from missing the playoffs six years in a row to competing for a title. There are steps involved. And yes, you’d add an all-world MVP candidate in Giannis, but team the best players in the history of the game have had to lose playoff series before they win it all. There are steps to be taken. And this is a roster, even though it has what Harrison Barnes on it and uh to a lesser degree De’Aaron Fox who’s played in a grand total of one playoff series in his entire career, there’s no playoff experience on this team. Um, you…
Jeff McDonald: Luke Kornet has a title.
Mike Finger: That okay, there you go. Luke Kornet. I bet your point is valid.
Jeff McDonald: I I I I stand corrected.
Mike Finger: But you you get my point. Like the the veterans, Devin Vassell, Keldon Johnson, um, you know, guys who have been around, Julian Champagnie, uh uh uh Jeremy Sochan’s getting to be sort of a veteran now. On down the line, these guys just haven’t been through it and and none of them have been through it together. And so to put all your eggs in a in the basket of winning this year or winning next year, it’s just not how this works. The the guy, the the centerpiece player who uh you who you if you would look at all the list of NBA champions going back through time and and identify their best player, their centerpiece player, not their not necessarily their finals MVP, but the guy. And I would count in the early in the early Lakers years, that was Shaq as opposed to Kobe. I think Kobe became that. But the the first guy that you find going back from 2025 on through the ages that won before I think they’re year seven in the league was Tim Duncan in 1999. He won in what his third season. Um everybody else, it takes the the best guy wanted in his sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, 10th season. Stephon Curry didn’t win his first five years. LeBron James didn’t. Um…
Jeff McDonald: Jokic…
Mike Finger: It just hasn’t happened. And you know, on on down the line, uh the last few years, Giannis, uh Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, um, uh Jokic, it takes all these guys. You don’t win in your first five years. It takes these guys time and that’s why you built things to last. I I got a um one thing I was going to mention in the middle of your your eloquent soliloquy there was uh I got a a a a request yesterday from our good friend Maxime Aubin from L’Équipe, uh who’s a San Antonian.
Jeff McDonald: Maxime!
Mike Finger: He’s been a San Antonian for the past couple of years, covering Victor, does a great job. He was writing a story about the Giannis situation and wanted some perspective on Spurs trade history and whatnot. And one thing that I brought up to him that I it sort of came up in in in our back and forth and I’d forgotten this, but the last time that the Spurs had ever considered, I shouldn’t say the last time, but one notable time that the Spurs had considered trading a young foundational piece for a superstar, uh and and this this this was relevant to a writer from L’Équipe in France. Can do you can you off the top of your head think of what I thought of? It’s going back a long time.
Jeff McDonald: Tony for J-Kidd.
Mike Finger: Tony for Jason Kidd. And and at that time, people in the in the websphere, there was no social media, but on on the on the on the on the uh…
Jeff McDonald: On the Telegraph…
Mike Finger: …message boards… Yeah, on on the message boards, people were like, how could you not? How could you not trade this this spindly, uh uh little uh uh unaccomplished uh 20-something uh draft pick from France who’s never going to be anything, why would you not trade him for a Hall of Famer? A point guard is exactly what the Spurs need. A Hall of Fame point guard is exactly what the Spurs need to compete. And if you look back on that and think how thankful the Spurs are that they didn’t do that deal, um that tells you a lot, I think.
Uh how how things would have changed if the Spurs had had traded Tony Parker for Jason Kidd. Would they only have… I I don’t think they’d have five championships. Um anyway, and and…
Jeff McDonald: I think I think it’s fair to say they would not have.
Mike Finger: And I’m not saying that Dylan Harper is going to turn into Tony Parker or that Giannis is all of a sudden going to become a shell of himself like Jason Kidd eventually did in his later years. I guess Jason did win a title in in Dallas, but not as the not as the star. The the point is that that’s the risk you you take when you trade a guy like that who you believe in. It’s not that you should never trade a young player, but the Spurs believed in Tony at the time, just like the Spurs believe in both Stephon Castle and Dylan Harper now, and there needs to be serious consideration before you uh you make the splashy, sexy move for the superstar.
Jeff McDonald: Like the Spurs had zero interest in trading for the number, you know, trading the number two pick last summer. Like when teams came to them, no, we are not trading the number two pick. And that was before they ever saw Dylan Harper in a Spurs uniform. Like it’s even a more attractive um asset now. Like they’re not they’re not they’re not trading that. They’re not trading that.
Mike Finger: Glad we solved all that. Um look forward to talking to everyone again next week after the Spurs beat the Lakers and trade for Giannis and we’re proven to be wrong on everything.
Jeff McDonald: Unwinnable.
Mike Finger: [laughter] Until next time, take care of each other and keep it real.
[music fades in]