Spurs Insider Podcast, 2026-05-12 00:38:00
专栏作家迈克·芬格 (Mike Finger) 与随队记者杰夫·麦克唐纳 (Jeff McDonald) 和汤姆·奥斯本 (Tom Orsborn) 讨论了维克托·文班亚马 (Victor Wembanyama) 在对阵森林狼的西部半决赛第四场比赛中被驱逐出场的情况、马刺随后的失利，以及文班和马刺在第五场比赛中的前景。
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以下是播客的文字记录：
迈克·芬格: 本期《马刺内幕》(Spurs Insider) 由 Texas Law Guns, Villarreal & Begum 律师事务所赞助。事故后需要帮助？请拨打 Texas Law Guns 电话 210-800-0000。
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迈克·芬格: 这里是来自明尼阿波利斯市中心高度机密的绝密地点网络，《马刺内幕》二级恶意犯规特辑。我是迈克·芬格，和我在一起的照例是两位《圣安东尼奥新闻快报》的马刺随队记者：永远不会令人恶心的汤姆·奥斯本 (Tom Orsborn) 和偶尔显得荒谬的杰夫·麦克唐纳 (Jeff McDonald)。我们有很多内容要聊。我们是在周一凌晨录制这期节目的，就在不久前，圣安东尼奥马刺队在西部半决赛中被明尼苏达森林狼队扳平了比分。维克托·文班亚马 (Victor Wembanyama) 没能打完那场比赛，因为主教练米奇·约翰逊 (Mitch Johnson) 称之为一种“令人恶心”的情况，裁判允许了针对文班亚马的某些动作持续发生，我们稍后会详细讨论。他最终为自己出头了——可能方式不是最明智的——他一肘挥到了纳兹·里德 (Naz Reid) 的脸上。随后他被客气地请出了球馆。他身边的马刺球员们表现得令人钦佩。他们通过与森林狼僵持到了最后，证明了自己的观点，但最终功亏一篑。现在我们都准备回到德克萨斯州南部我们自己的安全地点，准备迎接关键的第五场。内容太多了，谁想先来个辛辣点评？
汤姆·奥斯本: 是的，展望未来，米奇用了“荒谬”这个词。
迈克·芬格: 令人恶心且——好吧……
汤姆·奥斯本: 当他被问到文班可能会在第五场被禁赛的可能性时，他说：荒谬。
迈克·芬格: 我们——应该指出的是，我们正在努力——我们优秀的制作人蒙蒂·巴赫 (Monty Bach) 希望能在周一下午把这期节目上线，上帝保佑，技术给力的话。为了把节目带给大家，我们将录制时间提前了一天。我们在 NBA 执行副总裁詹姆斯·琼斯 (James Jones) 就文班亚马在第五场比赛的状态发布官方裁决之前进行录制。但是杰夫·麦克唐纳，如果大家在听这期播客时发现文班被禁赛了，我会感到非常震惊。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 是的，这看起来不太可能。嘿，我想说，你在开场白里给我们提供了一个播客新名字的好主意。我们应该叫它“汤姆·奥斯本与二级恶意犯规”。
迈克·芬格: [大笑] 那行得通。那行得通。杰夫，你对昨晚比赛的宏观感受是什么？
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 基本上就像你说的。我的意思是，你不能那样做。无论文班亚马感到多么沮丧，或者多么需要自我保护，你都不能——你不能在季后赛中那样放倒一个人还指望留在场上。而且，你知道，没有人想把他踢出去。我敢肯定裁判在寻找任何让他留在比赛中的理由，但那动作太恶劣了，而且就像扎克·扎尔巴 (Zach Zarba) 在麦克风里说的那样，这是“按章办事”。你知道，它符合二级恶意犯规的每一个标准，他们必须这么做。人们都看了回放。我的意思是，实时看动作很糟糕，但你看回放时会发现非常清晰，文班盯着里德的脸，打量了一下，然后给了他一记重击。
迈克·芬格: 是的。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 所以，这会让你被驱逐出场。我不认为这会导致禁赛。我认为马刺会辩称——而且可能很公平——这家伙基本上已经错过了一场季后赛的整整三节比赛。这算是“刑满释放”了。让我们继续前进吧。我估计联盟也会这么处理。他是初犯，并没有这类行为的前科——那是他职业生涯第一次二级恶意犯规。我认为他会出战第五场。但这确实让他们陷入了险境，尽管他们在第四场几乎还是逃出生天了。但是没错，我认为关键在于——你就是不能那样做。
迈克·芬格: 是的，而且——我的意思是，这是一种瞬间的判断失误，并不是说他在事发前的几秒钟或几分钟里就预谋好了要往里德脸上来一肘。但这只是 NBA 的明文规定。就像扎尔巴说的，那是你绝对不能做的。如果是其他球员做了那件事——如果是一个角色球员做了那件事——我的意思是，我不认为会有任何争论。除了那些无论如何都会支持自己球队的铁杆粉丝外，我不认为真的有什么争论。我想每一个中立的观察者……在看回放之前，你看看我们媒体席周围，大家都在说：“他可能会因为那个动作被驱逐。”然后你看了回放，感觉就是：“他绝对会被驱逐。”这只是——我们可以讨论这是否可以理解，以及杰登·麦克丹尼尔斯 (Jaden McDaniels) 在这件事发生时是否一直在抓他、劈砍他，以及文班做出那样的反应是否合理。我认为这些观点都是有效的。只是，你不能像那样把肘部挥向别人的脸。而且他已经付出了巨大的代价。我想是 ESPN 统计与信息部——来自本播客的好友迈克尔·莱特 (Michael Wright) 的消息——他说得对，没有任何一位 NBA 全明星在季后赛中比文班亚马更早被驱逐出场？
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 季后赛，是的。我想那是正确的。
迈克·芬格: 所以，这——我的意思是，这是一个相当严厉的惩罚。再说一次，我们不会过多讨论 NBA 对此的决定，因为我想在人们听到这期节目时，决定已经做出了，而且我想我们知道那个决定会是什么。但是，汤姆，你觉得文班不在场时，他身边的那些家伙在比赛最后阶段的表现如何？
汤姆·奥斯本: 非常好。考虑到他们今年在没有他的情况下打了很多比赛，这并不令人意外。今年他们在缺少很多主力的情况下打了很多比赛，而且他们总是能用那句经久不衰的“下一个人站出来”的格言做出很好的回应。但是，你知道，斯蒂芬·卡斯尔 (Stephon Castle)、哈珀、福克斯先生——全都拿到了 20 多分。科内特上场后也打得很好。是的，所以他们反应非常好。有趣的是展望第五场：裁判会如何处理？明尼苏达会再次对他——文班——施加高强度对抗吗？文班会——你知道，他在回击身体对抗时会有些犹豫吗？这些都是未来的疑问。
迈克·芬格: 杰夫，你怎么看？
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 我觉得詹姆斯·琼斯有机会做出一件最滑稽的事情。
迈克·芬格: [大笑]
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 詹姆斯·琼斯是联盟的纪律主管。他是那个基本上拥有裁量权的人，决定文班是否值得进一步的处罚——罚款或禁赛。这很有趣——也许用讽刺或巧合这个词更合适——詹姆斯·琼斯曾是 2007 年菲尼克斯太阳队的一员，当时阿玛雷·斯塔德迈尔 (Amar’e Stoudemire) 和鲍里斯·迪奥 (Boris Diaw) 因为在马刺那场比赛中离开替补席而被禁赛一场，导致他们的季后赛征程被毁，当时罗伯特·霍里 (Robert Horry) 撞飞了史蒂夫·纳什 (Steve Nash)。
迈克·芬格: 史蒂夫·纳什。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 所以，你知道，也许詹姆斯·琼斯坐在那里会想：“你看，我们当时有两个人因为往场内迈了一步就被禁赛了。而文班亚马给了一个人一记重拳。”我不认为那会发生，我只是在开玩笑。但看到这些事情随着时间的推移如何交织在一起，确实很有趣。
迈克·芬格: 我们现在处于这样一个阶段——就像当年的情况一样——马刺球迷，就像联盟中每一支球队的球迷一样，他们深信有一个针对他们的阴谋。我想现在每个球迷群体都这么认为。但从亚当·萧华 (Adam Silver) 的角度来看：为什么要搞一个阴谋把文班亚马，这个世界上最受欢迎的球员之一，踢出季后赛呢？如果这就是正在发生的事情，我不认为这对 NBA 来说是一个非常聪明的阴谋。而且我不认为——再说一次，他已经服过刑了，几乎是三节比赛。昨晚听到了一些消息，关于他——赛后他在更衣室里搞了一个相当大的观赛派对。他们不得不把巨大的按摩床搬进客队更衣室，这样他才能看到电视。那是他和他的理疗师，还有几个录像分析员和更衣室管理员，他们非常投入。我认为当时的情绪很乐观。我们没能和文班交谈，但我看到他走出更衣室走向大巴。他看起来并不沮丧。从远处看，他似乎对现状感到满意。当他走下球场时，我们看到他与每个人击掌并祝大家好运。赛后的更衣室里，依然放着凯尔登·约翰逊 (Keldon Johnson) 的音乐。依然——我的意思是，那场比赛后的更衣室并不是葬礼现场，杰夫。看起来那组人非常有信心，认为一切都会好起来的。正如你指出的，他们已经从这次明尼苏达之旅中得到了他们想要的。他们赢了两场中的一场。他们仍然拥有主场优势。我想圣安东尼奥的街头可能会有一些恐慌，但更衣室里没有。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 我认为，你知道，球迷们可能会觉得“噢，马刺错过了一个黄金机会”，这是公平的。你知道，他们有机会取得 3-1 的领先，他们在第四节还领先。基本上，比赛只是在最后三分钟崩盘了。人们可能会认为马刺挥霍了机会，但实际上发生的是森林狼躲过了一劫。如果马刺在文班被驱逐三节的情况下坚持住并赢下那场比赛，我的意思是，系列赛就结束了。马刺当时就可以终结系列赛。所以森林狼只是躲过了一劫。而现在——你知道，马刺仍然带着对系列赛的掌控回到圣安东尼奥。它本可以被完全掌控，但现在也还在掌控之中。基本上归结为，现在这是一个三场两胜的系列赛，而你有两个主场。所以我认为——而且他们会迎来——正如我们讨论的，我们预计文班亚马将可以参加这些比赛。所以，你知道，他们仍然处在一个相当不错的位置。他们只是错过了昨晚真正让森林狼陷入绝境的机会。但实际上——那场比赛最后阶段的胜利对明尼苏达来说比对马刺更重要，因为如果马刺在没有文班在场的情况下赢了那场，你知道，就系列赛而言，那就是比赛结束，满盘皆活了。
汤姆·奥斯本: 是的，他们——不仅很可能迎来文班的回归，而且还会迎来一个休息充分的文班。
迈克·芬格: 而且他们迎回文班时，面对的是这样一套阵容：我简直无法释怀这些家伙在这个季后赛舞台上表现得有多好。这些家伙以前从未到过这个阶段。特别是其中一个，汤姆提到了他：迪伦·哈珀 (Dylan Harper)。我的意思是，正如达龙·福克斯 (De’Aaron Fox) 昨晚所说，对于一个那么年轻的球员来说，这不正常。几个月前他还是个青少年。他从未打过 NCAA 锦标赛，更不用说 NBA 季后赛了。有时他看起来像是球场上最冷静、最沉着、最有经验的组织者。是的，安东尼·爱德华兹 (Anthony Edwards) 在最后时刻压倒了马刺。他变成了那个不可阻挡的爱德华兹，表现得太棒了。但是当你把文班带回这样一套阵容，其中的球员已经证明了他们也能做到——达龙·福克斯昨晚在某些时段展现了他昔日“年度关键球员”的风采。斯蒂芬·卡斯尔，感觉我们对他讨论得还不够，事实上他——他每晚都在技术统计表的各个方面贡献数据。正如汤姆所说，卢克·科内特 (Luke Kornet) 在系列赛的前三场表现相当平庸，但昨晚他作为文班的防守替补表现得非常出色。你把这些因素结合在一起，然后让文班回归阵容，有很多理由对马刺接下来的前景感到乐观。
汤姆·奥斯本: 是的。朱利安和德文每晚都表现出色，他们打出了全能的表现。凯尔登——你知道，他大部分时间还没有达到“年度最佳第六人”的状态，但你知道，那可能会到来的。所以是的，我认为他们会没事的。他们会没事的。孩子们都很棒。
迈克·芬格: 展望未来，杰夫，既然现在是一个三场两胜的系列赛，而我们即将报道周二中部时间晚上 7:00 在 Frost Bank 中心举行的这三场系列赛的揭幕战，这要感谢尼克斯队带来的另一个积极进展。获胜的关键是什么？我们的读者、听众、观众每天都非常期待《圣安东尼奥新闻快报》的“获胜关键”。给他们提前透露一下马刺在关键的第五场比赛中的获胜关键吧。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 伙计，你让我太为难了。我还不知道呢。
迈克·芬格: 你还没写吗？
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 没有，我还在构思。我得想想。我得想想。
汤姆·奥斯本: “获胜关键”可不能等闲视之，杰夫会仔细钻研统计数据的。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 是的，是的。你以为我只是随口一说，从屁股里掏出来的吗？你得钻研录像。
迈克·芬格: 是的，没错。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 就像俾斯麦·比永博 (Bismack Biyombo) 鼓励我们的那样。
汤姆·奥斯本: 咨询各种来源。是的。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 我想其中之一会是“打好开局”。
迈克·芬格: 是吗？
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 是的。
迈克·芬格: 我想波波会欣赏这一点的。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 必须打好开局。
迈克·芬格: 我要说的是，马刺——这算是《马刺内幕》一个长期的笑话，但马刺最近在这些比赛中从一开始就表现得相当不错。
汤姆·奥斯本: 防守端，确实。
迈克·芬格: 他们并没有让自己陷入困境，尽管他们本赛季在落后情况下逆转的表现还可以，但我认为他们——可以公平地说，他们在进入每场比赛前都有一个计划，并且在执行计划方面相当熟练。我想我们知道计划是什么。那就是——他们想对那些家伙推节奏。他们想打死缠烂打的人盯人防守，真正贴到明尼苏达所有核心球员的脸上。这就是他们一直在做的。斯蒂芬·卡斯尔从一开始就参与其中。达龙·福克斯在几场比赛中起步较慢，但我认为你退后一步，看看这两支球队之间的对决，在进入这个系列赛之前每个人都很担心，因为明尼苏达在常规赛中对阵马刺打得非常好。现在看来，情况并不像是明尼苏达掌握了所有答案，就像常规赛看起来那样。我认为这看起来仍然是一场马刺拥有个人优势、团队优势的对决，只要情况不再失控，他们应该处于有利位置。
汤姆·奥斯本: 必须在二次进攻得分方面做得更好。这是一个关键。
迈克·芬格: 这是一个。你想写“获胜关键”吗？你已经了如指掌了。
汤姆·奥斯本: 是的。
迈克·芬格: 汤姆，你昨晚在“季后赛冲刺”(Playoff Push) 中提到了这一点，我知道人们很喜欢那个视频——由《新闻快报》视频团队制作的“季后赛冲刺”视频，包括本播客的三个人，每晚结束时都在球馆地板上录制。但你提到，斯蒂芬·卡斯尔指出，安东尼·爱德华兹昨晚在最后时刻并没有摆脱马刺的防守者。他那是什么意思？
汤姆·奥斯本: 嗯，斯蒂芬的观点是他们干扰了他所有的投篮，他们，你知道，做了他们一直在做的事情：对他进行包夹，他们对他防守得很好。但是，你知道，在某些时刻你只能摊手。你拿那家伙怎么办？我的意思是，他很强。他真他妈的强。而且，你知道，他在文班下场后昨晚多次突入禁区；那是一个大问题。所以，是的。而且他是在为母亲节而战。我的意思是，昨晚他为了纪念已故的母亲而充满了动力。而且你知道，这是自 2013 年总决赛的勒布朗 (LeBron) 以来，第一次有人在季后赛对阵马刺时连续砍下 30+。所以他的表现足以与名宿并肩。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 而且华子是在几乎只有一条腿的情况下做到这一切的。这真的有点不可思议。
汤姆·奥斯本: 是的，是的，那很神奇。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 甚至只有半条腿。他现在两个膝盖都有伤。
汤姆·奥斯本: 是的。而且他只会变得越来越好。连续两场打 40 多分钟。这家伙简直是超人。真他妈的强。
迈克·芬格: 这——这是一个很好的清醒剂，对于所有——我们在本期播客的前 19 分钟里表现出了不寻常的乐观，关于马刺如何处于有利位置，以及他们如何仍然掌控着系列赛等等。你仍然要面对 NBA 前 10、前 8 甚至前 5 的球员之一，而且他正处于精英级别的竞技状态。所以马刺在接下来的三场比赛中虽然有容错空间，我认为是有的。但在那个容错空间的另一端——有一个非常优秀的超级巨星安东尼·爱德华兹，他随时准备在马刺稍有疏忽时发起猛攻。所以他们必须保持纪律。他们必须全力以赴，因为那家伙非同寻常。好消息是，到目前为止，森林狼队中还没有另一个像迪伦·哈珀或斯蒂芬·卡斯尔那样的副手爆发。比如，他们从兰德尔那里得到了一些东西，从艾尤 (IO) 那里得到了一些东西。鲁迪·戈贝尔一直——除了保持一贯的防守中坚形象外，他有时在进攻端也颇有建树。但我认为马刺在防守端的一个积极信号是，他们没有让其他人摆脱防守。如果这种情况能持续下去，那就太好了。
汤姆·奥斯本: 是的，没有人——那些家伙还没有爆发性的表现，你知道，如果你是马刺球迷，你会屏住呼吸，想着他们中的某个人迟早会有所产出。
迈克·芬格: 是的。我们做这期播客已经一周了。季后赛每周播客的特点是，期间会发生很多事情。但回到那场惨败——那场惨败是在我们上一期播客之后，也就是这个系列赛的第二场。当我们上次与观众和听众交谈时，街头还有一点恐慌，担心马刺在第一场比赛中落后，以及他们作为一个整体如何应对他们的第一个季后赛挑战。那些家伙中的很多人以前从未面对过那种情况，你想知道他们会如何回应。现在看来那就像很久以前的历史了，不是吗？
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 是的，我想我们不再担心他们如何应对逆境了。我认为他们已经证明了自己。你确实——我的意思是，如果你想听听我的“乌云时刻”，那就是：如果你是马刺球迷，除了第二场，所有这些比赛都很胶着，直到最后时刻。伙计，你可不想在那种比赛中面对另一边的安东尼·爱德华兹。我的“稍安勿躁”式的建议是：你离输掉一场本该赢的比赛只差一个安东尼·爱德华兹在第四节的手感发烫，然后你就陷入了 2-3 的绝境，你知道吗？所以——你可以带着良好的感觉结束这一切，因为马刺在文班留在更衣室的情况下依然咬住了比分。他们曾有机会获胜。他们展示了他们的勇气，证明了自己。但如果安东尼·爱德华兹在第五场第四节爆发，一切仍可能化为泡影。你知道，这就是季后赛篮球，伙计。一切都像是在剃须刀钢丝上行走。
迈克·芬格: 绝对正确。另一面是我们在本期播客中尚未讨论的上周发生的另一场比赛，也就是第三场，当时你所说的情况正在发生。马刺让自己进入了一场非常重要的比赛，因为如果你是马刺，你绝对必须在明尼阿波利斯拿下一场胜利。比赛进入了最后时刻，安东尼·爱德华兹就在场上。而这正是季后赛经验、坚韧和勇气该发挥作用的时候。而维克托·文班亚马表现得太他妈好了，以至于最后甚至都没什么戏剧性了，因为他在第三场最后时刻完成了每一次进攻。他打出了统治级的表现，并且得到了身边队友的大量帮助。但杰夫说的关于“当你在一场势均力敌的比赛中面对安东尼·爱德华兹时你必须感到紧张”的一切——这正是像明尼苏达森林狼这样的球队现在对文班亚马的看法。所以，能够带着“你拥有那个家伙”的心态进入马刺即将面对的这段赛程——这决定西部半决赛归属的三场比赛——是相当令人欣慰的。就像明尼苏达对安东尼·爱德华兹的感觉一样。但是没错，他说他在第三场稳住了局面。我的意思是，他做得更多。他直接把船拖到了岸边。
杰夫·麦克唐纳: 这话很有诗意。
迈克·芬格: 是的，类似那样。
汤姆·奥斯本: 那是他们最好的防守表现。我的意思是，他们在第四节对爱德华兹的防守做得非常好。他得到了 32 分，但在德文和斯蒂芬·卡斯尔轮流绕前防守不让他接球的情况下，他只得到了 5 分。他在第四节没有得到很多投篮机会。
迈克·芬格: 这是一个团队的努力，就像其他球队喜欢对文班尝试不同的防守策略并取得不同程度的成功一样，马刺也对安东尼·爱德华兹尝试了很多不同的防守人。有卡特·布莱恩特 (Carter Bryant) 防守爱德华兹的时间。有迪伦·哈珀防守爱德华兹的时间。
汤姆·奥斯本: 还有凯尔登·约翰逊的时间。
迈克·芬格: 凯尔登·约翰逊的时间。他仍然能得分，但他们有这么多球员不仅会防守，而且热爱防守，真正让那家伙打得很辛苦。还有一点：即使安东尼必须努力得分，并且偶尔在那些防守者头上得分，当你能把斯蒂芬·卡斯尔、迪伦·哈珀、卡特·布莱恩特、德文·瓦塞尔——随便叫出一个名字——放到他面前一对一防守而不感到紧张，并且认为“好吧，我们就让这个防守者来对付他”时，这意味着，回到汤姆之前的观点，其他球员就不会获得空位，因为你不需要离开他们去协防。所以，让安东尼·爱德华兹为他的得分付出代价，不让他有传球给空位球员投空位三分的机会是非常重要的。到目前为止，马刺已经能够做到这一点。我还漏掉了什么吗？我总是漏掉一些东西。
汤姆·奥斯本: 从头到尾，我想。基本上是面面俱到了。
迈克·芬格: 你漏掉的是你的宁静。我知道谁没有漏掉他的宁静，那就是汤姆·奥斯本。是时候进行“宁静检查”了。我们需要找个赞助商：“汤姆·奥斯本宁静检查”。是的，我知道你还有三分钟就得去赶飞机了，汤姆。但在你走之前，在回到主场参加第五场比赛之际，现在的心理状态感觉如何？
汤姆·奥斯本: 现在感觉相当不错。接纳。接纳就是答案。你知道，你必须接纳现实。彻底的自我接纳，以及对他人的接纳。迈克，这些年来你在这方面帮了我很多。我必须给你点赞。我已经学会了接纳真实的你，拥抱你的缺点和优点。有时这考验了我的耐心，但我爱你。是的，我爱你。
迈克·芬格: 哇。哇。这太不可思议了。
汤姆·奥斯本: 现在，谁会不喜欢走进明尼阿波利斯一家叫 Pings 的餐厅呢？四年前我们就去过。我们犯了同样的错误——至少我会负责任地说，我犯了同样的错误，没意识到它真的不对外营业。它只提供外带。
迈克·芬格: 它真的不对外营业。
汤姆·奥斯本: 而且四年后它还在营业。这太疯狂了。Pings 是永恒的。
迈克·芬格: 汤姆，这太令人感动了。我没想到《马刺内幕》播客二级恶意犯规特辑的结尾会有这种情感共鸣。我在开场时指出你从不令人恶心，从不荒谬，但远不止于此。伙计，你真的让我们思考。你真的提醒我们要让感激之情高于我们的期望。我收到一张纸条——想确认一下我没漏掉什么——噢，好的。不，这是——让我看看。天哪，这播客做得太棒了，我告诉你。看着你像当年那位做头发的女士一样把眼镜戴上又摘下。我被汤姆的时刻搞得有点心慌。我们下周再见。汤姆得去机场了。他留给了我们很多思考。马刺周二晚上在 Frost Bank 中心有一场重要的比赛。我们将在《新闻快报》、expressnews.com、“季后赛冲刺”以及我们的下一期播客中全程报道。在下次见面之前，照顾好彼此，保持真实。
[音乐]
迈克·芬格: 汤姆出发了。
[音乐]
由生成式人工智能翻译，译文内容可能不准确或不完整，以原文为准。
点击查看原文：Wembanyama’s flagrant 2 edition
Wembanyama’s flagrant 2 edition
Columnist Mike Finger and beat reporters Jeff McDonald and Tom Orsborn discuss Victor Wembanyama getting ejected from Game 4 of the Western Conference Semifinals against the Timberwolves, the Spurs subsequent loss and what is next for Wemby and the Spurs in Game 5.
Suggested reading:
After Wembanyama ejected, Spurs coach calls physicality toward him ‘disgusting’
How ejected Victor Wembanyama watched Spurs fall short, prove a point
3 Takeaways as Spurs lose after Wembanyama ejected
Why the Spurs couldn’t stop Timberwolves’ Anthony Edwards from dominating
NBA sets finals details for Game 5 of Spurs vs. Timberwolves
Here is the transcript of the podcast:
Mike Finger: This episode of Spurs Insider is brought to you by Texas Law Guns, Villarreal & Begum. Need help after an accident? Call Texas Law Guns at 210-800-0000.
[music]
Mike Finger: From a highly secure network of top-secret locations across downtown Minneapolis, this is the Spurs Insider, Flagrant 2 edition. I am Mike Finger, joined as always by a couple of San Antonio Express-News Spurs beat writers: the never-disgusting Tom Orsborn and the occasionally ridiculous Jeff McDonald. We have so much to get to. We’re recording this on early Monday morning, soon after the San Antonio Spurs had their Western Conference Semifinals series evened against the Minnesota Timberwolves. Victor Wembanyama did not make it through much of that game because of what head coach Mitch Johnson referred to as a disgusting situation where the officials had allowed some treatment of Victor Wembanyama to continue, and we’ll get into more of that later. He finally stood up for himself—probably in not the smartest way—by throwing an elbow into Naz Reid’s face. He was kindly asked to leave the arena bowl. The local cagers around him did an admirable job. They proved a point of their own by hanging with the Minnesota Timberwolves, but it was not to be, and now we are all preparing to go back to South Texas to our secure locations there for a huge Game 5. So much to get to, who wants to start with the hot take?
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, and looking ahead, Mitch said “ridiculous.”
Mike Finger: Disgusting and—well…
Tom Orsborn: When he asked them about the possibility of Wemby being suspended for Game 5: ridiculous.
Mike Finger: The—we—it should be pointed out that we’re trying—our excellent producer, Monty Bach, is going to get this up hopefully on Monday afternoon, God willing, technology willing. We moved up our recording schedule a day to get this to you guys. We’re recording this before NBA Executive Vice President James Jones has issued his official ruling as to Victor Wembanyama’s status for Game 5. But Jeff McDonald, I’d be shocked if it turns out that once people are listening to this podcast that Victor is suspended.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, that seems unlikely. Hey, I wanted to say, you gave us a good idea for a new name for this podcast in the intro there. We should call it “Tom Orsborn and the Flagrant 2.”
Mike Finger: [laughter] That would work. That would work. What was your 10,000-feet takeaway from last night, Jeff?
Jeff McDonald: It’s pretty much like you said. I mean, you just can’t do that. As frustrated or as in need of self-protection as Victor Wembanyama might have been, you just can’t—you just can’t level a guy like that in a playoff game and expect to stay on the court. And you know, like, nobody wanted to kick him out. Like, I’m sure the refs were looking for any reason to keep him in the game, but it was just so egregious and so “letter of the law,” as Zach Zarba said on the microphone. You know, it met every single criteria for a Flagrant 2 foul, and they had to do it. You kind of—people saw the replay. It looked—I mean, it looked bad in live action, but you saw the replay and it looks pretty clear that Victor looked Naz Reid in the face, sized him up, and clocked him.
Mike Finger: Yeah.
Jeff McDonald: So, that gets you kicked out of the game. I don’t think it gets you suspended. I think the Spurs will argue—and probably fairly—that the dude already missed three quarters, basically, of a playoff game. Like, that’s time served. And let’s move on. And I assume that’s where the league will go with this. He’s a first-time offender, doesn’t have a reputation for this sort of thing—that’s his first Flagrant 2 foul ever. I think he’ll be there for Game 5. But it certainly put them in a dicey situation that they nearly escaped from anyway in Game 4. But yeah, I think it’s just the—you just can’t do that.
Mike Finger: Yeah, and it’s—I mean, it’s a momentary sort of lapse of discretion, and it’s not like he premeditated the idea for seconds or minutes leading up to this that he was going to clock Naz Reid in the face. But it’s just black-letter NBA law. Like, that—like Zarba said, that’s what you cannot do. If it was any other player who had done that—if it was a role player who had done that—I mean, I don’t think there’d be any debate at all. I don’t think there’s really any debate outside from the true partisan fans who are always going to stand up for their team no matter what. I think every neutral observer… you looked around our press seating area before we even saw a replay, and it was like—there was a lot of, “He might get ejected for that.” And then you saw the replay and it was like, “He’s definitely going to get ejected for that.” And it’s just—we can get into whether it’s understandable and whether or not Jaden McDaniels was grabbing him and hacking him while this was happening, and whether or not it was justified for Victor to react that way. I think all those points are valid. It’s just, you can’t swing an elbow into a guy’s face like that. And like he’s already paid a huge price. I think it was what, ESPN Stats & Research from friend of the podcast Michael Wright—had this right—that no NBA All-Star had ever been ejected from a game earlier in a playoff game than Victor Wembanyama?
Jeff McDonald: Playoff game, yeah. I think that’s correct.
Mike Finger: So, that—I mean, that’s a pretty stiff penalty. And again, we’re not going to get too much into the NBA’s decision on this because I think it will already have been made by the time people are listening to this, and I think we know what that decision’s going to be. But let’s—yeah. Tom, how did you think the guys around Victor responded down the stretch in that game?
Tom Orsborn: Really well. And it was no surprise considering they’ve played a lot without him. They played a lot without a lot of guys this year, and they’ve always responded well with that tried-and-true “next man up” mantra. But, you know, Castle, Harper, Mr. Fox—all 20-plus points. Kornet came in and played well. Yeah, so they responded really well. The interesting thing is going forward to Game 5: how do the refs handle that? Does Minnesota go at him—Wemby—again hard? Does Wemby—you know, is he a little tentative being physical back to them? It’s all kind of questions going forward.
Mike Finger: Jeff, what do you think?
Jeff McDonald: I think James Jones has the opportunity to do the funniest thing.
Mike Finger: [laughter]
Jeff McDonald: James Jones is the league discipline czar. He’s the guy who basically has the discretion on whether Wemby deserves any other punishment—fines or suspensions—on this. And it’s just funny—and maybe ironic is the word, or coincidental—that James Jones was on the 2007 Phoenix Suns team that had its playoff run wrecked when Amar’e Stoudemire and Boris Diaw got suspended for a playoff game for coming off the bench—leaving the bench area—during an altercation in that Spurs game when Robert Horry hip-checked Steve Nash.
Mike Finger: Steve Nash.
Jeff McDonald: So, you know, maybe James Jones is sitting there going, “You know, we had two guys suspended for taking one step onto the floor. And Victor Wembanyama clocked a guy in the face.” I don’t think that will happen, I’m just being silly. But it is interesting just how all this intersects over time.
Mike Finger: We are at a point to when—much like in those days—Spurs fans, like every group of fans across the league, they’re thoroughly convinced that there’s a conspiracy to get them. I think every fan base believes that right now. Just looking at it from Adam Silver’s perspective: why would you have a conspiracy to kick Victor Wembanyama, one of the most popular players in the world, out of the playoffs? I don’t think that’s a very smart conspiracy on the NBA’s behalf, if that’s what’s going on. And I don’t think—again, he served his time, which was almost three quarters. Heard some info last night about the—he put together quite a viewing party in the locker room after the game. They had to move the giant massage table into that visiting locker room so he could get a view of the TV. And it was him and his therapists and a couple of video guys and locker room attendants, and they were really into it. And I think there was an upbeat attitude. We didn’t get to talk to Victor, but I saw him walk out of the locker room towards the bus. He did not look depressed. He looked from afar like he was okay with things. As he walked off the court, we saw him dap everybody up and wish everybody good luck. And in the locker room after the game, there’s still Keldon Johnson music. There’s still—I mean, that was not a funeral in the locker room after that game, Jeff. It seemed like there was a lot of confidence from that group that things are going to be all right. And as you pointed out, they already got what they wanted out of this trip to Minnesota. They won one of the two games. They still have home-court advantage. And I think there might be some panic in the streets in San Antonio, but not in that locker room.
Jeff McDonald: I think, you know, it’s fair for maybe fans to feel like, “Oh, the Spurs missed a golden opportunity.” You know, they had a chance to go up 3-1, they were ahead in the fourth quarter. Basically, it just came undone in the final three minutes. People might look at that as the Spurs blew an opportunity, but really what happened is the Timberwolves dodged a huge bullet. If the Spurs had held on and won that game with Wemby ejected for three quarters, I mean, the series is over. The Spurs could have put an end to the series right then. So the Timberwolves just dodged a bullet there. And now it’s—you know, the Spurs are still going back to San Antonio with the series under control. It could have been really under control, but it’s under control right now. It basically boils down to, now it’s a three-game series and you get to play two of those games at home. So I think—and they’re getting—as we discussed, we expect Wembanyama will be available to play for them in these games. So, you know, they’re still sitting in a pretty good spot. They just missed a chance to really put the Wolves on the ropes last night. But it’s really—that game was more important for Minnesota to get at the end than it was for the Spurs, because if the Spurs were to win that one without Wemby on the floor, you know, it’s game, set, match as far as the series is concerned.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, they get—not only will they likely have Wemby back, but they get a well-rested Wemby back as well.
Mike Finger: And they get him back to a lineup in which I can’t get over how well guys are handling this postseason stage. Guys who’ve never been there before. One in particular, Tom mentioned him: Dylan Harper. I mean, as De’Aaron Fox put it last night, that’s not normal for a guy that young. He was a teenager a few months ago. He never played in an NCAA tournament game, let alone an NBA playoff game. He looked like the most cool, calm, collected, experienced playmaker on the court at times. And yeah, Anthony Edwards overwhelmed the Spurs at the end. He became Anthony Edwards and was awesome. But when you bring Wemby back into a lineup where guys are proving that they can do it too—De’Aaron Fox showed signs of his old “Clutch Player of the Year” self during stretches last night. Stephon Castle, it seems like we don’t talk about him enough for the fact that he’s just—he’s putting up numbers and contributions all over the box score every night. As Tom said, Luke Kornet, who had been pretty below average in the first three games of that series, really was awesome as a defensive force for Victor. You throw all that together and then bring Victor back into the lineup, and there’s a lot of reasons to be optimistic about the Spurs’ chances the rest of the way.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah. Julian and Devin every night, it’s an all-around game from them. Keldon’s—you know, he hasn’t been the “Sixth Man of the Year” form for the most part, but you know, that could come. So yeah, I think they’ll be all right. They’re going to be all right. The kids are all right.
Mike Finger: Looking forward, Jeff, now that it is a three-game series and we’re about to cover the opener of that three-game series at Frost Bank Center at 7:00 PM Central Time on Tuesday, which was another positive development from yesterday thanks to the Knicks. What are the keys to victory? Our readers, listeners, viewers look so forward to the “Keys to Victory” in the San Antonio Express-News every day. Give them a sneak peek of the Spurs’ keys to victory in a pivotal Game 5.
Jeff McDonald: Man, you put me on the spot. I don’t know yet.
Mike Finger: You haven’t written them yet?
Jeff McDonald: No, I’m still working on them. I gotta think about it. I gotta think about it.
Tom Orsborn: “Keys to Victory” aren’t taken lightly, Jeff pores over the stats.
Jeff McDonald: Yes, yes. Do you think I just come up with them, pull these out of my keister? You gotta pour over the film.
Mike Finger: Yeah, exactly.
Jeff McDonald: Like Bismack Biyombo encourages us to do.
Tom Orsborn: Consults with various sources. Yeah.
Jeff McDonald: I think one of them is going to be “get off to a good start.”
Mike Finger: Yeah?
Jeff McDonald: Yeah.
Mike Finger: I think Pop would appreciate that.
Jeff McDonald: Got to get off to a good start.
Mike Finger: I will say, the Spurs have—that’s sort of a long-running Spurs Insider joke, but the Spurs have been pretty good from the jump in these games lately.
Tom Orsborn: Defensively, sure.
Mike Finger: They haven’t been digging themselves into holes, and even though they’ve been okay coming back from deficits this season, I think they have had—it’s fair to say they’ve had a plan going into each of these games and have been pretty adept at pulling that off. And I think we know what the plan is. It’s—they want to push the pace on those guys. They want to play just dogged man-to-man defense, really get in the faces of all of Minnesota’s main guys. And that’s what they’ve been doing. Stephon Castle’s getting involved from the beginning. De’Aaron Fox has been slow in a couple of games, but I think you take a step back and you look at the matchup between these teams, which everybody was concerned about heading into this series because Minnesota had played the Spurs so well during the regular season. It doesn’t seem like a situation where Minnesota has all the answers like it looked during the regular season. I think it still looks like a matchup where the Spurs have individual advantages, team advantages, and as long as things just don’t go haywire again, they should be in good position.
Tom Orsborn: Gotta do better at second-chance points. There’s one.
Mike Finger: There’s one. Do you want to write the “Keys to Victory”? You’re all over it.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah.
Mike Finger: Tom, you mentioned this on the Playoff Push last night, which I know people love—the Playoff Push videos that the Express-News video team, including the three people on this podcast, have been producing from the arena floor at the end of the night. But you mentioned that Stephon Castle noted that Anthony Edwards did not get away from the Spurs’ defenders down the stretch last night. What did he mean by that?
Tom Orsborn: Well, Steph’s contention is that they contested all his shots, that they, you know, did what they’ve been doing: throwing traps at him, that they defended him pretty well. But, you know, you throw up your hands at some point. What are you going to do with the guy? I mean, he’s tough. He’s damn tough. And, you know, he penetrated last night after Wemby went out. They all got into the paint; that was a big problem. So, yeah. And he was playing for Mother’s Day. I mean, he had some motivation last night in honor of his late mother. And you know, it’s the first back-to-back 30-point games against the Spurs in the playoffs since LeBron in the 2013 Finals. So he’s in pretty good company.
Jeff McDonald: And Ant’s doing all this on like one leg. It really is kind of amazing.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, yeah, that is amazing.
Jeff McDonald: Half a leg, even. He’s got two bum knees right now.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah. And he only keeps getting better. Back-to-back 40-minute games. The guy is superhuman. Damn tough.
Mike Finger: And that—that’s a good reality check for all the—we had some uncharacteristic positivity in the first 19 minutes of this podcast about how the Spurs are in great position and they’re still in control in the series and all that. You still have one of the top—for sure 10, 8, 5 players in the NBA that you have to deal with playing at a pretty elite level. And so the Spurs have margin for error, I think, in these next three games. But they’re still at the—on the other side of that margin for error—a really good superstar player in Anthony Edwards who’s ready to pounce whenever the Spurs do slip up just a little bit. So they’re going to have to be disciplined. They’re going to have to bring it because that dude is something else. The positive news is there’s not that other guy on the Timberwolves so far who has just gone off and been like a Dylan Harper sidekick or a Stephon Castle sidekick. Like, they’re getting some stuff from Randle, they’re getting some stuff from IO. Rudy Gobert has been—he’s actually been sort of productive on offense at times in addition to being his usual defensive stalwart self. But I think one positive note to look at from the Spurs defensively is that they haven’t let somebody else get away from them. So that would be good if that continued.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, nobody’s—there’s been no breakout performances for those guys and, you know, you kind of hold your breath if you’re a Spurs fan thinking one of them sooner or later is going to have some production.
Mike Finger: Yeah. It’s been a week since we did this podcast. The thing about the weekly podcast in the playoffs is so much happens in between. But going back to that blowout—that blowout was after our last podcast in Game 2 of this series. The last when we last spoke to the viewers and listeners, there was a little bit of panic in the streets about the Spurs being behind in that first game and how they had met their first sort of postseason challenge as a group. A lot of those guys had never faced a situation like that before and you wondered how they were going to respond to that. And that seems like ancient history, doesn’t it?
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, we’re not worried about how they respond to adversity anymore, I don’t think. I think they’ve proven themselves. You do—I mean, if you want to do the—my dark cloud moment is going to be this: if you’re a Spurs fan, except for Game 2, all these games have been close and down to the wire. And man, you don’t want to get in that kind of game with Anthony Edwards on the other side. That would be my “hold your horses” kind of advice would be: you’re just one fourth-quarter Anthony Edwards heater away from losing a game you otherwise would win and now you’re in a 3-2 hole, you know? So it’s—you can feel good coming out of this because the Spurs held tight with Victor in the locker room. They had a chance to win. They’ve shown their mettle, they’ve proven themselves. But you still—it could still all go up in flames if Anthony Edwards gets hot in the fourth quarter of Game 5. You know, so it’s—that’s playoff basketball though, man. Everything’s on a razor wire.
Mike Finger: That’s absolutely true. The flip side of that is another game that we have not discussed on this podcast that happened last week, which was Game 3, where what you were speaking of was happening. The Spurs had gotten themselves into a really important game because you had to absolutely get a game up here in Minneapolis if you’re the Spurs. And it was going down to the wire and Anthony Edwards was on the floor. And this was a time when playoff experience is supposed to show, and grit and mettle and all that stuff is supposed to show. And Victor Wembanyama was so freaking good that it almost wasn’t even dramatic at the end because he made every play when it got down to that time in Game 3. Just a dominating performance from him and he received plenty of help from guys around him. But everything Jeff said about “you gotta be nervous when you get into a close game against Anthony Edwards”—that’s what teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves are thinking about Victor Wembanyama now. So it’s pretty good—it’s pretty comforting to be able to go into a stretch of games like the Spurs are about to go into—these three games that are going to decide the Western Conference Semifinals—knowing that you have that guy on your side. Much like Minnesota feels about Anthony Edwards. But yeah, he said he kept the ship together in Game 3. I mean, he did more than that. He towed it into the shore.
Jeff McDonald: Now that was poetic.
Mike Finger: Yeah, something like that.
Tom Orsborn: That was their best defensive effort. I mean, they had a really good defensive effort against Edwards in the fourth quarter of that game. He had 32 points, but he scored only five with Devin and Steph Castle taking turns denying him the ball. He didn’t get off a lot of shots in that fourth quarter.
Mike Finger: It’s been a team effort and, much like the way that other teams like to throw different looks at Victor to varying degrees of success, the Spurs have thrown a lot of different guys at Anthony Edwards. There’s been Carter Bryant time on Anthony Edwards. There’s been Dylan Harper time on Anthony Edwards.
Tom Orsborn: There’s been Keldon Johnson time.
Mike Finger: Keldon Johnson time. He’s still getting his points, but they have so many guys who not only play defense but love playing defense and really make that guy work. And here’s the other thing: even if Anthony has to work to get his points and does get his points occasionally on those guys, when you can throw a Steph Castle, Dylan Harper, Carter Bryant, Devin Vassell—name your guy—on him one-on-one and not be nervous about it and think, “Okay, we’re going to let this defender handle him,” that means, to Tom’s point earlier, other guys aren’t getting loose because you don’t have to leave them. So that’s really important to make Anthony Edwards work for what he gets and not give him the option of passing to a wide-open guy for a wide-open three-pointer. And so far the Spurs have been able to manage that. What am I missing? I’m always missing something.
Tom Orsborn: Soup to nuts, I think. Pretty much soup to nuts.
Mike Finger: Your serenity is what you’re missing. I know who isn’t missing his serenity, and that is Tom Orsborn. It’s time for the “Serenity Check.” We need to get this sponsored: “The Tom Orsborn Serenity Check.” Yeah, I know you have to have a hard out to catch your airplane in about three minutes, Tom. But before you do, what’s the mental outlook feeling like these days heading into a trip back home for Game 5?
Tom Orsborn: It’s pretty good right now. Acceptance. Acceptance is the answer. You know, you just have to accept things. Radical self-acceptance and acceptance of others, too. And you’ve helped me with that, Mike, through the years. I’ve just gotta give you credit. I’ve come to accept you as you are and embrace your flaws, as well as your positives. Tested my patience at times, but I love you. Yeah, I love you.
Mike Finger: Wow. Wow. This is incredible.
Tom Orsborn: Now, who cannot like walking to a restaurant called Pings in Minneapolis that, four years ago, we walked to? We made the same mistake—at least I’ll be accountable, I made the same mistake of not realizing it’s really not open for business. It’s open for take-out.
Mike Finger: It’s really not open for business.
Tom Orsborn: And it’s still in business four years later. That’s insane. Pings is forever.
Mike Finger: Tom, this was incredibly moving. I did not expect this type of emotional resonance to the end of the Spurs Insider podcast, Flagrant 2 edition. I opened it by pointing out that you are never disgusting, never ridiculous, but it’s more than that. Man, you really make us think. You really remind us to keep our gratitude higher than our expectations. And I’m getting a note here—want to make sure I’m not missing something from the—oh, okay. No, this was—let me check. Jeez, this is great podcasting right here, I’m telling you. Watching you put your glasses on and off like the hair upholsterer lady from back in the day. I was flustered by Tom’s moment. We will be back with you next week. Tom’s got to go to the airport. He’s left us with a lot to think about. The Spurs have a big game coming up on Tuesday night at the Frost Bank Center. We will have all that covered in the Express-News, on expressnews.com, in the Playoff Push, and in our next podcast. Until we see you then, take care of each other and keep it real.
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Mike Finger: Tom is out of here.
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