Spurs Insider Podcast, 2026-06-02 05:27:00
专栏作家迈克·芬格 (Mike Finger) 与随队记者杰夫·麦克唐纳 (Jeff McDonald) 和汤姆·奥斯本 (Tom Orsborn) 一起，讨论了马刺队在抢七大战击败俄克拉荷马城雷霆队后的动人庆祝场景，并探讨了维克托·文班亚马 (Victor Wembanyama) 及其队友在挺进与纽约尼克斯队的史诗级总决赛对决之际，是如何不断打破传统NBA固有认知的。
推荐阅读：
马刺锁定总决赛席位，尚帕尼脑海中浮现出自己不可思议的逆袭之路
以下是播客文字实录：
旁白：本期《马刺内幕》（Spurs Insider）由戴维斯律师事务所（Davis Law Firm）赞助播出。想要了解更多？请拨打4字热线。[音乐]
迈克·芬格：这里是《马刺内幕》NBA总决赛特别版，我们正在德克萨斯州南部多个高度机密的绝密地点进行联网录制。我是迈克·芬格，身边依然是《圣安东尼奥快报》的马刺随队记者杰夫·麦克唐纳和汤姆·奥斯本。正如很久以前在《马刺内幕》节目中预言的那样，他们要一直工作到六月了。兴奋之情溢于言表。这些机密地点的停车场里已经响起了喇叭声，而且至今余音绕梁。整座城市都在沸腾，我们的播客也在沸腾，马刺即将在NBA总决赛中迎战纽约尼克斯。仿佛又回到了1999年。一位年轻、冉冉升起的超级巨星正带领着马刺迎接这场对决。尽管我们可能喜欢调侃这个播客里发生的一切，调侃马刺国度里发生的一切，但杰夫·麦克唐纳，这依然是一件了不起的大事。我的意思是，你真的缓过神来了吗？这支此前从未打进过季后赛的球队，在文班亚马职业生涯的第三年，居然就要打总决赛了？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我的意思是，你说得对。这真的像极了1999年。我想听听林普巴兹提特乐团 (Limp Bizkit) 的歌，看一遍《黑客帝国》，再做点我在1999年做过的其他事情，比如散散步、锻炼身体……
迈克·芬格：哦，是吗？你真的要重温旧梦？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我就是要重温。这完全就是1999年的重演。1999年有多久远呢？我记得1999年我刚拿到大学毕业后的第一份工作，我当时是在一台连遥控器都没有的电视机上，看完了马刺淘汰尼克斯的夺冠之战。别提什么平板电视、网络流媒体了……那时候连遥控器都没有。你必须走到电视机前，手动换台到NBC或者播马刺对尼克斯比赛的频道。那就是当年的情况。所以，确实过去很久了。
迈克·芬格：那也是你最后一次锻炼身体吧——就是你站起来走到电视机前换台的时候？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：那……是的，没错，完全没错。
迈克·芬格：汤姆，你感到震撼或深受鼓舞吗？你有什么想法？我们在比赛当晚没有录节目。在俄克拉荷马城，看着球场上的一片狂欢，文班亚马弯着腰、抽泣着，寻找着可以拥抱的人，更不用说更衣室外走廊里的庆祝活动了，那场面真是令人动容。我知道网上有很多声音呼吁《马刺内幕》做一期紧急播客，但我们并不认为这是紧急情况。我们坚守自己的日程安排，就像米奇·约翰逊 (Mitch Johnson) 和文班亚马一样，我们保持自己的节奏。我们不会仅仅因为这是总决赛就改变习惯。我们依然在周一和周二录音。但是，汤姆，你对这一切的总体印象是什么？
汤姆·奥斯本：嗯，正如杰夫在今天的报道中写得那么好，与其说是文班在对决中击败了谢伊·吉尔杰斯-亚历山大 (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander，简称SGA)，不如说是他从SGA的猛烈攻势中幸存了下来。毕竟SGA砍下了35分。这也让我想到了马刺的配角阵容。你知道，文班就是文班。我的天，如果没有他，我们根本不可能走到这里。但在那场比赛中站出来的其他球员，比如朱利安·尚帕尼 (Julian Champagnie)——他21岁时被76人队裁掉。对他来说，能在那样的舞台上打出这样的比赛，砍下20分并投进6个三分球，这真的非常了不起。还有卢克·科内特 (Luke Kornet) 的盖帽，配角阵容贡献了太多。在季后赛开始前，这些球员是面临最大疑问的，至少对我来说是这样。还有凯尔登·约翰逊 (Keldon Johnson)，他在今年季后赛中打得很挣扎，他在抢七大战后也承认了这一点，但他能在第四节拿到11分中的8分，看到这些家伙挺身而出真的很酷。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：关于汤姆提到的配角阵容这一点，在抢七大战的第四节，客场挑战卫冕冠军，在如此胶着的比赛中，马刺在第四节有七名不同的球员得分。
汤姆·奥斯本：哇，是的。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：七个不同的球员。几乎每次你需要进球时，都会有新的球员站出来解决问题。再加上科内特的追身大帽，所有这些人都为这场年度最伟大的胜利贡献了力量。在接下来的总决赛中，他们需要更多这样的表现。
迈克·芬格：在现场的一片喧嚣中，我跟杰夫·麦克唐纳提过——我想可能是在下半场刚开始的时候——如果你看看这轮系列赛中的球员，SGA和文班显然是独一档的，但完全可以认为，在杰伦·威廉姆斯 (Jalen Williams，简称J-Dub) 缺阵的情况下，马刺拥有这轮系列赛中前五名最佳球员中的四位，甚至可能是前六名中的五位……因为当我谈到前五名中的四位时，我不是指他们的整个职业生涯，而是指他们在这轮系列赛中的影响力。我甚至还没把达龙·福克斯 (De’Aaron Fox) 算在内，因为德文·瓦塞尔 (Devin Vassell) 在这轮系列赛中表现得太出色了。瓦塞尔在分区决赛中表现棒极了。而雷霆队这边可能挤进这个行列的，大概只有亚历克斯·卡鲁索 (Alex Caruso)，因为切特·霍姆格伦 (Chet Holmgren) 根本进不了这个组。但如果你列一张分区决赛表现出色的球员名单，显然有文班和SGA，然后是迪伦·哈珀 (Dylan Harper)、斯蒂芬·卡斯尔 (Stephon Castle)、瓦塞尔，福克斯也榜上有名。是的，卡鲁索打得不错，雷霆其他球员比如凯森·华莱士 (Cason Wallace) 以及——我还漏了雷霆的谁？——他们也偶尔有所贡献。但随着J-Dub缺阵，加上霍姆格伦的表现让“曾有人认为他是文班亚马宿敌”的说法变得更加荒谬，文班得到的帮助显然比SGA多得多。毫无疑问，文班是马刺能继续走下去的原因。他是这一切的推动力。但马刺现在达到了这样一个里程碑，还有一件事必须得到认可：马刺管理层的决策是多么正确，他们在过去几年里没有为了给他找一个超级巨星搭档而进行疯狂的恐慌性交易。我的意思是，你能想象放走迪伦·哈珀、放走斯蒂芬·卡斯尔，或者随便哪个家伙吗？所有这些人在他们所取得的成就中都不可或缺。
汤姆·奥斯本：说到“正确”，这正好是一个很好的过渡，我可不想浪费它。[笑声] 抢七大战给我留下的最深刻记忆之一，就是赛后我守在通道口，准备拍视频——如今视频可是重中之重——拍球员们庆祝着走下球场的画面。而最先走过通道的人之一就是布莱恩·莱特 (Brian Wright)。他身边一个人也没有，[笑声] 一个人也没有，他没有……他一如既往地冷静和低调。马刺在他的掌舵下刚刚打进NBA总决赛，而他依然那么谦逊。我只是觉得这完美体现了他的性格和他的工作方式。他走在最前面，带领大家离开球场走向更衣室。天哪，他在这其中扮演了极其重要的角色，不仅在于他做出的那些运作，还在于他顶住压力没有做出的那些运作，正如你经常写到的那样，迈克。
迈克·芬格：是的，那是一个奇妙的场景。它始于维克托的反应——尽管他过去也多次展现过情感，但这绝对是我们见过的他在场上最真情流露的一次。虽然工作还没有彻底完成，但这绝对是其中极其、极其、极其重要的一部分。当时的气氛有些超现实，因为我不认为这支球队在面对一个非常强大的对手、即将迎来一轮极其艰难的系列赛时，会有任何轻敌的心态。但是，我认为击败那支球队（卫冕冠军）并重返这个舞台，带来了一种巨大的成就感。而且我认为，抢七大战和总决赛第一场之间有三天的休息时间，这在这方面对马刺很有帮助，他们可以专注于眼前的下一项任务。这也对《马刺内幕》播客的嘉宾们很有帮助，我们或许能趁机补个觉。但是，杰夫，这引出了我的下一个问题：现在要开始专注于尼克斯了，你认为一支在周六晚上如此激动的球队，将如何完成这种心态的转变？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，我一点也不担心这个问题，主要原因就像你刚才说的。他们有一段间歇期来重新调整焦点、重整旗鼓，回到训练馆，回到录像分析室，明确眼前的任务。虽然我不知道这是否是你真正想问的，但我对他们赛后那种情绪的宣泄完全没有意见。我的意思是，外面总有一些人对什么都看不惯，他们会说：“哦，他们庆祝得就像已经夺冠了一样，真愚蠢。”这并不愚蠢。正如你所说，这是一项巨大的成就，而且这不会影响任何事情。他们今天或明天就会回到训练馆，重新集中注意力，并能以崭新的视角去应对与纽约的系列赛。而且在很多方面，我相信他们自己也清楚，尼克斯对马刺来说，可能是一个比雷霆更难对付的对手。不用“可能”，他们就是，尤其是对比雷霆在这轮系列赛中的阵容配置。对马刺来说，这将是一轮艰难的总决赛。在西部决赛之前，有一种论调——甚至在一些主流媒体圈里也是如此——认为西部决赛的胜者就是总冠军，西部决赛就是事实上的NBA总决赛，我完全不同意这种看法。我认为尼克斯绝对有机会，这将是一轮非常艰难的系列赛。我们稍后可以讨论他们的对位情况，以及马刺在常规赛交手中对阵尼克斯时遇到了哪些问题，但毫无疑问，这将是一轮硬仗，我想大家都心知肚明。
迈克·芬格：好的，我确实想深入探讨一下对位情况，以及为什么你说的完全正确。但我们还是先稍微回顾一下，因为我们每周只录一次节目，因为我们坚守自己的节奏，在聚光灯亮起时我们也不会改变。在那轮分区决赛的最后三场比赛中，情绪起伏更大，外界的过度反应和恐慌情绪也更严重。在第五场输给俄克拉荷马城之后，我们开始看到更衣室里出现了一些我们以前从未见过的反应[笑声]，或者说文班亚马的“无反应”。用一个词来形容就是“专注”。他不像平时那么健谈了，外界也开始出现一些担忧，怀疑马刺是不是要走到终点了。顺便说一句，即使那就是终点，对马刺来说也是一个伟大的赛季。他们打进分区决赛，这是处于他们这种处境的大多数球队、甚至几乎没有球队能做到的。但是，汤姆，当你回顾当时的心态，回顾马刺球迷在面对总比分2-3落后于卫冕冠军时的想法，再看看他们是如何实现逆转的——在圣安东尼奥的第六场比赛中轻松解决战斗，然后进入第七场，面对的是一支去年在夺冠路上赢下两次主场抢七、经验丰富的球队，而马刺此前从未经历过这些。正如米奇·约翰逊所说：“在这种情况下，经验根本不值一提。”
汤姆·奥斯本：是的，而且在第六场比赛中，配角阵容再次立功。在系列赛中期遭遇腹股沟伤势后表现有些沉寂的迪伦·哈珀挺身而出，砍下了至关重要的18分。你知道，马刺拥有太多的武器。有趣的是，在第二场输给俄克拉荷马城之后，所有人都在议论：“哇，俄克拉荷马城的武器太多了，他们的阵容太深厚了，有那么多球员可以站出来得分。”好吧，马刺也是一样的。如果他们没有受伤——好吧，我们还是别假设了，因为两队都有伤病——但是，哈珀的表现再次令人惊叹。我知道他不是一个普通的菜鸟，但能在第六场打出这样的大心脏表现，对马刺来说依然非常、非常、非常特别。
迈克·芬格：杰夫，过去这一周还有什么值得回顾的吗？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：好吧，我想如果纵观全局，是时候承认我们错了。我们在赛季开始时说，这简直……我是说，没人能预料到马刺能一路杀进NBA总决赛。但我们曾经坚信并一直宣扬的观点是，这支球队迟早会撞上新秀墙。毕竟，你不可能从连续六年无缘季后赛直接一步跨入NBA总决赛，这不符合常理。虽然以前也发生过，但那些例子都发生在特殊的疫情泡泡球馆时期。在正常情况下，从未打进过季后赛，然后突然一路横扫挺进总决赛，这是极其罕见的。在这一路上的每一步，我想——我只代表我自己，但我相信你们也会同意——我们都在等着他们碰壁，等着他们最终遇到一支能在季后赛中执行力更强、打得更强硬、表现更出色的球队。曾几何时，你觉得明尼苏达森林狼队 (Minnesota Timberwolves) 可能会是那支终结他们的球队，结果并没有。然后你觉得可能是俄克拉荷马城，到了雷霆系列赛快结束时，你觉得雷霆似乎找回了状态，接着你认为在客场的抢七大战中……他们肯定要崩盘了。但崩盘从未发生。从来没有。缺乏经验从未让他们付出代价，也从未成为他们的梦魇。事实上，他们似乎在每一轮系列赛中都在汲取经验，就像把数据输入电脑一样，融会贯通，并在下一轮打得更好。这太不可思议了，我认为人们还没有真正意识到我们刚刚见证了什么。这支球队，如此年轻……由于福克斯在系列赛开始时受伤，马刺在西部决赛中排出的首发阵容是分区决赛历史上最年轻的首发阵容。而这支球队竟然在抢七大战中客场击败了卫冕冠军，挺进NBA总决赛。这太了不起了，我认为是时候承认我们全都看走眼了。如果他们输给尼克斯，绝对不会是因为缺乏经验，或者因为他们无法承受大场面的压力，亦或是不知道该怎么打。如果他们输给尼克斯，那纯粹是因为尼克斯是更强的那支球队。但我们之前认为“经验至关重要”的观点显然是错的。也许当你拥有一个身高7英尺5英寸的外星人时，经验就没那么重要了，我不知道，也许这就是给我们的启示。
迈克·芬格：你提到了“这从未发生过”的例外情况，但那些例外非常特殊。比如，像马刺这样连续多年无缘季后赛却最终夺冠的球队，只有疫情期间泡泡球馆时期的洛杉矶湖人队。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：没错。
迈克·芬格：而且，那支球队里有勒布朗·詹姆斯 (LeBron James)。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：对，没错。
迈克·芬格：还有安东尼·戴维斯 (Anthony Davis)，两个多次打过总决赛的资深老将。所以，那和这支马刺完全没有可比性。马刺阵中……马刺最有经验的球员是达龙·福克斯，但他职业生涯也只打过一次打满七场的系列赛，然后就是像卢克·科内特这样的角色球员。我是说，这完全是前所未有的。当然，有些年纪稍长的马刺球迷可能还记得1999年，记得当时一个年轻、冉冉升起的7英尺长人，在职业生涯早期——仅仅是他进入NBA的第二年——就带领球队夺得了NBA总冠军，那就是蒂姆·邓肯 (Tim Duncan)。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：但即使是那支球队，在前一年也必须经历……在前一年也曾被犹他爵士队 (Utah Jazz) 揍得满地找牙。
迈克·芬格：没错。那支球队在前一年输了，撞了墙。而且那支球队还拥有大卫·罗宾逊 (David Robinson)、肖恩·埃利奥特 (Sean Elliott)、埃弗里·约翰逊 (Avery Johnson)、马里奥·埃利 (Mario Elie) 等一众名将。那确实是一项了不起的成就。作为建队基石的蒂姆·邓肯在第二年就夺冠，这在NBA历史上绝对是个特例。但如果马刺这次真的能击败尼克斯夺冠，那依然无法与文班亚马在第三年所做到的事情相提并论。因为，如果我没记错的话，杰夫，处于职业生涯第三年的文班，甚至比新秀时期的蒂姆·邓肯还要年轻。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我相信确实如此，可能只差几个月。
迈克·芬格：我敢肯定他绝对比邓肯第二年时要年轻。所以，这听起来就像是我们在大惊小怪或者言过其实，但我认为，我们正在见证的这一史无前例的神迹，怎么高估都不为过。这非常值得我们花时间去记录。现在，纽约尼克斯队得到了充分的休息。但有时，在一周没有打比赛的情况下进入系列赛，对一支球队来说反而可能会产生负面影响。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，在NBA，歇八天是一段很长的时间，这并不总是对你有利。
迈克·芬格：并不总是好事。他们没有一个像亚历山大那样极具统治力的超级球星——当然，在SGA蝉联MVP的年份里，显然没人能拥有这样的球员，[笑声] 但正如杰夫之前提到的，这可能是一场更艰难、更复杂的对决，因为正如我们所说，SGA在雷霆孤立无援。虽然尼克斯在轮换深度上可能不像雷霆那样能派上那么多轮换球员，但我认为他们拥有更多能够改变比赛、甚至接管比赛的球员。而雷霆除了SGA之外，根本没有其他人能站出来接管比赛。正如汤姆指出的，在那些比赛中，有时是迪伦·哈珀接管了对雷霆的比赛，有时是斯蒂芬·卡斯尔接管比赛，德文·瓦塞尔也有过高光时刻，而达龙·福克斯在系列赛初期受伤后，也在第六场和第七场投进了一些关键球。尼克斯拥有更多这种类型的球员，杰伦·布伦森 (Jalen Brunson) 是他们的领头羊，但你还有卡尔-安东尼·唐斯 (Karl-Anthony Towns，简称KAT)、OG·阿奴诺比 (OG Anunoby，简称OG)，米卡尔·布里奇斯 (Mikal Bridges) 在分区决赛中也似乎从沉睡中苏醒，还有乔什·哈特 (Josh Hart)……我是说，他们有很多值得马刺警惕的球员。我想知道你们觉得这轮系列赛会如何展开？
汤姆·奥斯本：还有圣安东尼奥克星乔丹·克拉克森 (Jordan Clarkson) 呢。抱歉，杰夫。
迈克·芬格：没错。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：不知道为什么，他似乎总是马刺克星，每次对阵马刺总能打出爆发表现。但尼克斯的问题在于，他们每个位置都很有体型优势。除了布伦森，其他人都是大块头。他们拥有高大强壮的四号位，这一直是马刺的痛点。他们会派上高大、对抗强悍的四号位……[笑声] 这很有意思。他们还有唐斯，他能把防守拉出来，一个能拉开空间到三分线的7英尺大个子。这与对阵俄克拉荷马城完全不同，我不确定马刺能否用同样的方式防守他们。这需要做出一些调整。在常规赛交手中，马刺有时喜欢让文班去防守对方没有投射能力的侧翼，从而让他可以在场上自由协防，甚至在内线进行适当的蹲坑。在常规赛中，他们经常用这一招来对付乔什·哈特。这轮系列赛的很大一部分走势可能取决于你会遇到哪个版本的乔什·哈特。我今天早上查了一下，他本赛季的三分命中率有40%，但在季后赛期间，他的命中率下降到了30%。所以，如果他打出像卡鲁索那样12投2中的比赛，马刺就有机会用这种方式防守他们。但如果他能投进球，马刺就必须想出别的对策。
迈克·芬格：所以如果他打出另一种卡鲁索式的比赛……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：对，另一种卡鲁索式的比赛。
迈克·芬格：是的，比如阿奴诺比这个位置，就是马刺比较脆弱的地方。当你面对一个不是中锋但身材高大的球员时，马刺并没有那种类型的防守者去对位那个“扣篮位”（dunker spot）。我的意思是，正如汤姆指出的，朱利安·尚帕尼在大舞台上闪耀，他一整年都表现得很出色，在攻防两端都很可靠。他现在为你打四号位，基本上就是你的先发四号位。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：先发四号位，没错。
迈克·芬格：而且，面对一支拥有阿奴诺比的球队……阿奴诺比可是个大块头。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的。
迈克·芬格：而且不知道为什么，布里奇斯对这些家伙来说一直很难防。尽管他在季后赛开始时打得很挣扎，但他依然是一个让你担心的球员。他以前对阵马刺时打出过不少高光表现。
汤姆·奥斯本：嗯，迈克，当我们在拉斯维加斯看NBA季中锦标赛决赛时，阿奴诺比和哈特是那场比赛中仅有的四名抢下8个或更多篮板的球员中的两位。他们简直在篮板上把马刺打爆了。我记得篮板比是59比42。[笑声] 这就是差距，他们在篮板球上毫不留情。而且这种冲击来自四面八方。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：这就是问题所在。雷霆在这轮系列赛中通过拼抢篮板、前场篮板和二次进攻取得了一些成效，而尼克斯在这方面简直是雷霆的超级加强版。所以，无论马刺在对阵雷霆的抢七大战下半场做了什么调整来解决这个问题，在总决赛第一场一开局，这就必须成为重中之重。
迈克·芬格：没错，没错。
迈克·芬格：疲劳感正在袭来，伙计们。你知道的……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：你是在说你自己吧。
迈克·芬格：呃……好吧，只是对我们而言，显然不是对球队。你知道的……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我昨晚休息得很好。
迈克·芬格：是吗？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：睡得很香。
迈克·芬格：但是，你知道，通常是第二天，对吧？回顾那些客场之旅，比如“情人节客场之旅”（Rodeo Road Trips），让你感到疲惫的往往不是背靠背比赛的当天，而是背靠背结束后的那一天。
迈克·芬格：我不想在这件事上纠结太多，因为大家都在向前看。但我之前提到过，居然有人试图把切特·霍姆格伦塑造成文班亚马的毕生宿敌——当然，这绝不是在我们这个播客里，也不是在《圣安东尼奥快报》里——这种想法现在让我觉得越来越搞笑了。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的。这想法一直……一直都很搞笑。
迈克·芬格：可怜的切特。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：可怜的切特。
迈克·芬格：但看了七场这样的对决，确实……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，这足以证明……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：而且，我是说，我几乎不想这么说，虽然切特确实挺可怜的，但这更能反映出文班亚马是何等恐怖的存在。因为霍姆格伦在面对其他28支球队时，都是最佳阵容级别的球员，甚至可能是世界上防守第二好的球员。但他一旦和文班亚马同台竞技，他就被彻底矮化了——字面意义上的矮化，以及形而上学、心理、情感等全方位的被碾压。
迈克·芬格：没错，在那些比赛中的某些时刻，甚至当他拿球面对朱利安·尚帕尼或凯尔登·约翰逊时，他都因为之前的阴影而不敢轻易发动进攻，因为他总觉得文班可能就在他身后的某个地方守株待兔。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的。
迈克·芬格：这……这真的不可思议。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我们之前经常聊到这个，人们觉得文班对切特有什么个人恩怨，也许吧，我是说，这可以追溯到当年的U19世青赛之类的。但我认为并不是这样。我觉得是在他职业生涯的前两年，每当马刺对阵俄克拉荷马城时，人们总是问他关于面对切特以及他们之间宿敌关系的问题。毕竟，一个是选秀状元，一个是紧接着那一年的榜眼，他们是类型相似的球员：高大、技术全面。我理解人们为什么要问这个问题，但文班不理解为什么人们会问这个问题，他的反应就像是：“你们拿我跟这家伙比？”[笑声] “不，我是SGA那个级别的，我是MVP讨论里的人物，我根本没把这家伙放在眼里。”所以，我觉得正是他职业生涯早期每次对阵雷霆时被问到的这些问题，让他觉得：“行吧，我必须去彻底摧毁这家伙，这样大家就不会再拿他来烦我了。”
迈克·芬格：没错。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：然后我想，在这过程中的某个时刻，切特的心灵受到了创伤，再也无法正常面对文班了。
迈克·芬格：继续，汤姆，你请说。
汤姆·奥斯本：好吧，为了把所有细节都交代清楚，面面俱到，也为了向值得赞扬的人致敬，另一件让我印象深刻的事是那些画面。我刚才提到了布莱恩·莱特，但在赛后大家戴着冠军帽、捧着奖杯的合照（那种官方合照）里，在最左边，有一个戴着帽子蹲在那里的矮个子，[笑声] 如果你不了解这支球队，看着照片你可能会想：“那是谁？那是哪个饮水机管理员，还是哪个年轻人？”其实那是米奇，米奇·约翰逊。[笑声] 真的太搞笑了，我当时就觉得，他看起来……我不想说像个球童，但他那张照片里看起来真的很年轻。但是，天哪，他在那轮系列赛中的执教表现真的是拼尽了全力。
迈克·芬格：我正想问你呢，汤姆。我直到大约一个小时后在走廊里看到他戴着冠军帽时才注意到。他可能在颁奖台上就穿了，也可能在新闻发布会上穿了，但我很晚才发现，不知道你有没有看到。你注意到他的T恤了吗？
汤姆·奥斯本：我没注意到，没注意到。
迈克·芬格：他穿了一件白色T恤，上面印着一张黑白照片，我相信那张黑白照片上的人是他的父亲。
汤姆·奥斯本：噢，噢，我懂了。噢，是的。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：噢，我以前见过那张照片。是的。
汤姆·奥斯本：那真的很温馨。
迈克·芬格：所以，电视机前的观众可能会说：“是的，芬格，这显而易见，我们都看到了。”但我很晚才注意到。所以如果你看到了，那很好，但如果没有……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：好吧，米奇也算是替西雅图超音速队 (Seattle SuperSonics，简称超音速) 报了当年搬离西雅图的仇。
迈克·芬格：没错。[笑声]
杰夫·麦克唐纳：把雷霆队淘汰出局了。
迈克·芬格：在马刺淘汰雷霆的那个夜晚，穿着超音速队的T恤。可真有他的。
汤姆·奥斯本：如果你不知道他的父亲是谁，他是约翰·约翰逊 (John Johnson)，或许是西雅图超音速夺冠时期的初代“组织前锋”（point forward）。他是一位非常优秀的球员，曾多次入选全明星。他在那个时代可以说是非常超前的，能够像控球后卫一样，在三号位上为队友穿针引线。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我们不谈那些假设的历史，但对于不了解米奇故事的人来说，因为约翰·约翰逊在西雅图结束了职业生涯，米奇·约翰逊几年后在那里出生，在西雅图长大，是个地道的西雅图人。后来他遇到了一个叫德章泰·默里 (Dejounte Murray) 的失足青年，开导他并成为了他的导师。马刺选中默里后，在2016年把米奇·约翰逊也带了过来，让他担任发展联盟（G League）的助教，就是为了让教练组里有一个能继续开导这个孩子、帮助他适应NBA、不至于误入歧途或抵制诱惑的人。正因为如此，米奇·约翰逊进入了马刺的体系，一步步晋升，深受大家喜爱，展现了自己的才华，成为了格雷格·波波维奇 (Gregg Popovich) 的助手，而现在，他成为了马刺的主教练，正在执教NBA总决赛。所以这一切都可以追溯回去：如果约翰·约翰逊当年没有为西雅图超音速队效力，米奇·约翰逊现在可能就不会执教圣安东尼奥马刺队了。
汤姆·奥斯本：我喜欢这个故事，非常棒。
迈克·芬格：在此基础上，这听起来可能有点偏袒自家球队，而且马后炮总是很容易的。但你认为在西部决赛中，谁的战术安排更好？谁的执教表现更出色？是年轻、未经考验的米奇·约翰逊，还是……马克·戴格诺特 (Mark Daigneault，简称Mark D.)？他确实是个不可思议的战术大师，顺便说一句，我很喜欢听他做赛前采访，他总能说出一些让我感兴趣的东西。他工作做得非常出色，是一个极棒的教练。但听听雷霆球迷，或者普通NBA球迷的抱怨吧，他们对“为什么这家伙还要继续用卢·多尔特 (Lu Dort)？为什么他不给切特做些调整？”之类的问题感到无比沮丧。无论系列赛结果如何，这种情况总会发生：输球的教练挨骂，赢球的教练得花。但是，去年在波波维奇因病缺阵后，这位当时只有37岁的年轻教练被推上了这个位置，当时有人说他无法胜任，一个从未经历过这些的人怎么能做出正确的战术决策、激励球员并在这个级别上执教呢？而马刺的教练组，从肖恩·斯威尼 (Shaun Sweeney)，到科利斯·威廉姆森 (Corliss Williamson)、马特·尼尔森 (Matt Nielsen)，这个教练团队在这轮系列赛中表现得太棒了。他们做出了正确的调整。他们在总比分2-3落后。他们在系列赛中几次落后，但总是能逆袭。他们把球员放在了正确的位置。我不是说他们完全碾压了雷霆的教练组，但米奇组建的教练团队，以及米奇本人，他们的表现绝对配得上和文班及其队友一样多的掌声。我认为这非常值得一提。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：绝对如此。而且这关乎整个教练组。今年最大的不同之一就是他们拥有一个规模庞大且充满活力的教练团队。他们没有解雇任何人，没有排挤任何人。他们只是在原有的基础上进行了扩充。显然，波波维奇离开了教练组，布雷特·布朗 (Brett Brown) 转向了更偏向顾问性质的管理层角色，所以他们需要填补一些空缺。他们没有赶走任何人，只是在马特·尼尔森和迈克·诺伊斯 (Mike Noyes) 的基础上增加了人手。是的，所有这些人都带来了贡献。我们可以花几个小时来讨论肖恩·斯威尼为这个组织所做的一切。现在他要去奥兰多魔术队了，一旦进入休赛期，这可能是最难填补的一个空缺——未来谁来担任米奇的得力助手。在马刺这个取得62胜并打进总决赛的赛季中，这或许是一个未被充分报道的故事，但去年夏天最成功的引援，很可能就是他们引进的这些教练。
汤姆·奥斯本：还有一个人必须提到，斯科特·金 (Scott King)，他在尼克斯待了五年，其中有四年担任球员发展教练。在汤姆·锡伯杜 (Tom Thibodeau，简称锡伯杜) 的手下，他在那个教练组中发挥了非常关键的作用，尤其是在教练挑战方面。所以这也是一个很棒的引援，他们是从尼克斯那里挖过来的。
迈克·芬格：顺便说一句，杰夫提到了这一点。虽然我们即将报道总决赛，不想现在就讨论休赛期，但当你谈到最难填补的空缺是肖恩·斯威尼留下的位置时——别忘了，你是一支拥有文班亚马、斯蒂芬·卡斯尔和迪伦·哈珀的球队，而且你在连续六年无缘季后赛之后，刚刚打进了总决赛……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：你可能会有一大批优秀的求职者。
迈克·芬格：他们将能够挑人，而不是费尽心思去找人。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我就是这个意思。对于这个职位，你可能会有一个非常深厚且高质量的候选人池。
迈克·芬格：几年前，当他们经历低谷期时，每当波波维奇手下有职位空缺，他们都很挣扎。当时的问题是：谁愿意加入这支正在经历重建的球队？而且你每年都不知道主教练是否会继续执教，如果波波维奇退休，你可能就会失业。在马刺最近的历史中，吸引顶级助教确实曾是一个难题。但现在这完全不再是问题了。我认为会有很多人——基本上每个没有当上主教练的人——都会对明年担任米奇的右膀左臂感兴趣。所以，当你在看今年的总决赛并为休赛期担忧时，如果你是那种喜欢未雨绸缪的人，大可不必担心，我认为这个问题会迎刃而解。
迈克·芬格：我觉得我们把所有事情都聊反了。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，确实聊反了。
迈克·芬格：我们是倒着聊完所有内容的。展望未来，还有什么需要讨论的吗？汤姆，在圣安东尼奥的前两场比赛中，你最期待看到什么？有什么让你感兴趣的吗？
汤姆·奥斯本：好吧，整个赛季大部分时间里，外界对马刺的批评和质疑都是他们不够强硬、缺乏对抗。他们已经证明了那不是真的，但面对这支高大强悍、作风硬朗的纽约尼克斯，对抗级别将提升到一个全新的高度。所以这就是我要关注的：他们能顶住这种强度的对抗吗？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我想看到……
迈克·芬格：以下是杰夫为您带来的“值得期待的看点”。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：由杰夫为您独家呈现。我想看看杰里米·索汉 (Jeremy Sochan) 在总决赛期间会染什么颜色的头发。[笑声]
杰夫·麦克唐纳：而且我也想向他问好。我想看看他怎么样了。他似乎……我不知道这个问题的答案，这可能是我们需要在系列赛进行过程中去调查的一个问题：无论如何，他能拿到一枚NBA总冠军戒指吗？
汤姆·奥斯本：这是个好问题。
迈克·芬格：我有点怀疑。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：你怀疑？你不认为马刺会给他一枚吗？
迈克·芬格：我不知道。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我们得去问问。我不知道。我甚至不知道它是怎么运作的，他们是要投票决定吗？还是……
迈克·芬格：我想是的。
汤姆·奥斯本：以我对马刺的了解，我想他们会倾向于给他一枚。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：也许会吧。也许会。
迈克·芬格：这应该会很有趣。我们要坚守我们的节奏。我知道人们一直在要求《马刺内幕》播客更新得更及时一些，但正如凯尔登·约翰逊所说……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我跟你说。
迈克·芬格：如果……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：如果你想要一期紧急播客，只要你能找到赞助商，我们就做。给我们赞助费，我们马上做。
迈克·芬格：杰夫总是想着成交，这就是所谓的ABC（Always Be Closing，永远在成交）……
汤姆·奥斯本：我的另一个大问题是，我们能在麦迪逊广场花园舒服地工作到深夜吗？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：答案是否定的。
汤姆·奥斯本：根据我的经验，我必须做好随时被赶走的准备。
迈克·芬格：是的，因为……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我想我们播客的朋友——我现在要提一下他的名字——汤姆·佩特里尼 (Tom Petrini) 曾有一个好主意。麦迪逊广场花园正下方就是宾夕法尼亚车站（Penn Station），那里有各种小餐馆和咖啡馆，我们直接去那儿，连上他们的Wi-Fi，然后写完我们的终场报道。
汤姆·奥斯本：我们最近一直工作得很晚，[笑声] 到时候看吧。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的。
汤姆·奥斯本：纽约虽然被称为“不夜城”，但根据我的经验，这并不完全是真的，所以……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：媒体席肯定是会“睡觉”的，新闻发布厅也肯定会关门。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：也许我们应该在宾夕法尼亚车站录制我们的赛后视频。那应该会很有趣。
迈克·芬格：无论如何，我的意思是，在大家开始讨论交稿之前，我知道那是重头戏，没人关心播客，大家只关心纸媒新闻，[笑声] 那才是未来。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：没错。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：潮流总会轮回的。
迈克·芬格：我的意思是……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：就像喇叭裤一样。
迈克·芬格：面对所有这些要求我们做出改变的呼声，我想用凯尔登·约翰逊在别人要求他在赛后更衣室调低音乐音量时的回答来回应。他说，我们整个赛季都把音乐放得这么大声，我们不会仅仅因为……杰夫，这好像是在某场比赛之后，在输球之后，对吧？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，没错。
迈克·芬格：那是一场输球……可能就是让他们总比分2-3落后、处于淘汰边缘的那场失利。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的。
迈克·芬格：当时在更衣室的一个角落里，记者正试图进行安静、低调的采访。与此同时，凯尔登·约翰逊把他的那个巨大、荒谬的低音炮音响开到了最大音量。一位公关人员看着他，说：“拜托，凯尔登，别这样。”他说：“我们一整年都这么放，现在也不会改变。”结果如何呢？马刺赢下了接下来的两场比赛，挺进了NBA总决赛。而《马刺内幕》播客也要一直工作到六月了！[音乐]
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我的天呐。
迈克·芬格：在下一次节目之前，请保持感恩之心大于期许之情，彼此多加关照，保持真实。[音乐]
由生成式人工智能翻译，译文内容可能不准确或不完整，以原文为准。
点击查看原文：NBA Finals extravaganza
NBA Finals extravaganza
Columnist Mike Finger and beat reporters Jeff McDonald and Tom Orsborn discuss the Spurs’ emotional celebration after beating Oklahoma City in Game 7, and explore the ways Victor Wembanyama and company keep proving traditional NBA wisdom wrong as they head into an epic Finals showdown against the New York Knicks.
Suggested reading:
How Victor Wembanyama lived up to the hype, and to an impossible dream
How the Spurs arrived at the NBA Finals, well ahead of schedule
Champagnie’s improbable journey on his mind as Spurs clinch Finals berth
Here is the transcript of the podcast:
Voiceover: This episode of Spurs Insider is brought to you by Davis Law Firm. Want more? Call the fours. [music]
Mike Finger: From a highly secure network of top secret locations across South Texas, this is the Spurs Insider NBA Finals edition. I am Mike Finger, joined as always by San Antonio Express-News Spurs beat writers Jeff McDonald and Tom Orsborn, who, as it was foretold on a long ago episode of Spurs Insider, are working till June. The excitement is palpable. There’s been honking in the parking lots of the secure locations. The honking continues to this day. The city is abuzz, the podcast is abuzz, the Spurs are about to meet the New York Knicks in the NBA Finals. It is 1999 again. There’s a young, up-and-coming superstar leading the Spurs into this matchup. And as much as we might like to mock everything that goes on on this podcast, that goes on in Spurs Nation, Jeff McDonald, it’s it’s still quite a thing. I mean, have you been able to process just the fact that this team and Victor Wembanyama’s third year, having never been to the playoffs before, are about to play in the NBA Finals?
Jeff McDonald: I mean, you’re right. It’s like 1999 again. I want to listen to some Limp Bizkit and watch The Matrix and do other things I did in 1999, like go for a walk, exercise…
Mike Finger: Oh, yeah? You’re really going to bring it back?
Jeff McDonald: I’m going to bring it back. It’s 1999 all over again. Here’s how long ago 1999 was. I remember I had just got my first job out of college in 1999, and I watched that closeout game against the Knicks on a television that didn’t even have a remote control to it. Forget your flat screens and your streamings and your… there wasn’t even a remote control. You had to go up to the television and change it to NBC or whatever the Spurs-Knicks were on. That’s how long ago it was. So, it’s been a while.
Mike Finger: And that’s the last time you exercised, is when you got up and walked across the room?
Jeff McDonald: That’s… yes, exactly, exactly.
Mike Finger: Tom, overwhelmed, inspired? What what what are your thoughts? We did not do this the night of. It was quite a scene in Oklahoma City watching the the chaos on the floor, Victor Wembanyama doubled over, sobbing, looking for people to hug, just just a celebration in the halls outside the locker room. I know there was a clamor online for the Spurs Insider to do an emergency pod, but we don’t we don’t consider this an emergency. We stick to our schedule, much like Mitch Johnson, Victor Wembanyama, we stick to our routine. We don’t change things just because it’s the Finals. We record on Mondays and Tuesdays. But but, Tom, what are your general impressions of of just everything?
Tom Orsborn: Well, as Jeff put so well in his story today, it wasn’t so much that Wemby outdueled SGA as survived him, which, you know, with SGA getting 35 points, which leads me to this supporting cast. You know, Wemby Wemby is Wemby. My gosh, I mean, we’re not here if it’s not for him. But the guys that stepped up in that game, you know, looking at you, Julian Champagnie, a guy who was cut, you know, when he was 21 from the… from the 76ers. For for him to have that kind of a game, 20 points, six threes in that stage, that’s pretty remarkable. You know, Luke Kornet with the block, there was just so much from the supporting cast. And those were the guys that we had the biggest, or at least I had the biggest question marks on coming in, you know, and Keldon Johnson, who who was who struggled so much in these playoffs, and who admitted as much after Game 7, for him to have eight of his 11 in the fourth, I mean, it was pretty cool to see those guys step up.
Jeff McDonald: To Tom’s point, to Tom’s point about the supporting cast, okay, it’s a tight game, fourth quarter, Game 7, on the road, defending champions, the Spurs had seven different players score in the fourth quarter.
Tom Orsborn: Wow. Yeah.
Jeff McDonald: Seven seven different players, every time you needed a basket, almost, it was a new guy coming up with something. And then that on top of, you know, Kornet’s chase-down block, all those guys chipped in to the biggest win of the year. And and they’re going to need more of that going forward in the Finals.
Mike Finger: I mentioned to Jeff McDonald above the above the mayhem, I think it might have been early in the second half of that game, that, if you look at at at the players in this series, and SGA and Wemby are SGA and Wemby, obviously, an argument could be made that the Spurs had, with J-Dub out, four of the best five players in that series, and maybe even five of the top… Because when I’m talking about four of the top five, I’m not talking about like their careers, I’m talking about their impact on that series. And I’m not even including De’Aaron Fox in that because Devin Vassell was that good in that series. Devin Vassell was awesome in the Conference Finals. And, like, the the guy who might sneak in there for Oklahoma City might have been like Alex Caruso, because Chet Holmgren isn’t in that group. But but if you’re if you’re taking a list of who played great in the Conference Finals, there’s Wemby and SGA, obviously, and then you have your Dylan Harper, your Stephon Castle, your Devin Vassell, your De’Aaron Fox is up there, and yeah, Caruso was good, and there were some moments from from other, you know, Cason Wallaces and and, who am I missing on on the Thunder, that contributed every now and then. But with J-Dub out, and with Chet Holmgren just getting, just making even more of a mockery of the idea that anybody ever considered him a Victor Wembanyama rival, like, Victor had so much more help than SGA did. And Victor is the reason why the Spurs are still playing, there’s no doubt about that. He is the impetus for all of this. But the Spurs, this is another thing that I think needs to be acknowledged now that the Spurs have reached a milestone like this, is how right everybody who is running the Spurs, how right they were for not making the crazy panic trade the last couple of years to try to get him a a superstar running mate. I mean, can you imagine letting Dylan Harper go, Stephon Castle go, name your guy, all those guys, integral in what they’ve accomplished.
Tom Orsborn: Speaking of right, this is a good segue here, so I don’t want to waste it. [laughter] One of the lasting memories for me of Game 7, you know, I posted up after the game to get video, the all-important video these days, of guys coming off the court in celebratory fashion. And one of the first guys coming through the tunnel was one Brian Wright. And he’s got no one around him, [laughter] no one around him, he’s not… he’s as calm and as quiet as ever. He just… they just made the NBA Finals under his watch and he’s as unassuming as ever. I just thought that was emblematic of who he is and what he’s done. He was kind of leading the way off the court into the locker room, and, boy, did he have a big part in this, with not only the moves that he made, but the moves that he didn’t make, as you’ve written a lot about, Mike.
Mike Finger: Yeah, and it’s… it was a weird scene in that, it started with the Victor reaction of, as much, and he’s shown emotion plenty of times in the past, but as much on-court emotion as we’ve seen from him, and to think that the job isn’t done yet, but this was a huge, huge, huge part of that job. It was a… it was a surreal scene there for a little bit, because I don’t think this is a team in any way that is taking something for granted heading into what figures to be a pretty tough series against a really good opponent. But, I think getting past that team, the defending champions, getting back to this stage, there’s a huge sense of accomplishment there. And I think that the fact that there are three days off between Game 7 and Game 1 is helpful for the Spurs in that regard, they can move on to the next job at hand. It’s helpful for the the panelists on the Spurs Insider podcast who might have been able to catch up on just a little bit of sleep. But I I I think that, Jeff, this this leads into my next question, just this this move to focusing on the Knicks now, how do you think a team that that was so emotional on Saturday night will will make that shift?
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, I don’t worry about that at all, and for mostly the reason you said. There’s a… there’s a gap there to refocus and reframe, get back in the gym, get back in the film room, understand the task at hand. Like, I don’t know if this was the question you were asking, but I have no problem with that, outsized display of emotion after that game. I mean, there there’s some people out there that hate everything, that are like, “Oh, they’re just celebrating like they won the championship, and that’s stupid.” It’s not stupid. That, like you said, is a huge huge accomplishment, and it doesn’t affect anything, like they’re going to they’re going to be back in the gym today or tomorrow, refocused, and be able to tackle that New York series with a fresh with a fresh set of eyes. And in many ways, and I think they know this, the Knicks are probably a worse matchup for the Spurs than the Thunder were. Not probably, they are, especially as the Thunder as constituted in that series. It’s going to be a tough final series for the Spurs. There was a narrative before the Western Conference Finals out there, even like with some respectable sort of, you know, in media spaces, that the winner of the Western Conference Finals is is the champion, like the Western Conference Finals is the NBA Finals, and I don’t agree with that at all. I think the Knicks have a real shot here, and I think it’s going to be a real tough series, and we can talk about that later, how they match up and and what the problems have been for the Spurs against the Knicks in in the regular-season meetings, but it’s going to be a tough series, and I think everybody knows it.
Mike Finger: Well, just to hit back, I do want to get into the matchup, and, and why what you said is true, but just to look back a little, little more, because we only record once a week, because we stick to our routine, because we do not change things when the… when the lights get bright, the final three games of that Conference Finals series, more swings in emotion, more overreactions, more panic in the streets after the the loss to Oklahoma City in Game 5, we started seeing some reaction [laughter] from the locker room, or non-reaction from Victor Wembanyama that we hadn’t seen before. He was locked in is one way to put it. Not as loquacious as he usually was, and there was some, there was some concern out there that is this the the end. And if it would have been the end, by the way, what a year it would have been for the Spurs. The fact that they got to the Conference Finals is something that most teams, almost no team in their position ever had done before. But, when you look back at the state of mind, the state of kind of what the what what Spurs fans were thinking, about this team being down 3-2 to the defending champions, just to to look back again, Tom, at at how they came back from that, took care of business in Game 6 in San Antonio, it was not even close, and then went into that Game 7 against a team that won two Game 7s at home on their way to the championship last year, had been there before, the Spurs had never been there before, and as as Mitch Johnson said, “Experience does not mean a darn thing” in that situation.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, and again, Game 6, supporting cast, Dylan Harper, who was a little quiet, after that groin injury in the middle games, came up, had a… had an 18-point performance that was pretty crucial. You know, they’re just they’ve got so many weapons. And it’s funny, you know, after that Game 2 loss to Oklahoma City, that’s what everyone was talking about, “Wow, Oklahoma City has so many weapons, they’re so deep, so many guys can step up and score.” Well, the Spurs are the same thing, you know, and and if they’re not injured, well, let’s not play that game, but because both teams had injuries, but, you know, Harper again, it’s pretty amazing that a… and I know he’s he’s no ordinary rookie, but still to come up and have that big game in Game 6, that was pretty, pretty, pretty special for the Spurs.
Mike Finger: Jeff, anything worth looking back on for of the week that was?
Jeff McDonald: Well, I think if you want to look back on the whole, it’s time for us to admit we were wrong. We started this season saying there’s just… I mean, no one could have predicted this, going all the way to the NBA Finals, but the the narrative or the the… the idea that we believed, and kept pushing, was that this team is going to hit a wall eventually. Like, you don’t you do not go from missing the playoffs six straight years to the NBA Finals, it does not happen. Although it has happened, but those were all… those instances were around those weird COVID years. But it’s very rare to never make the playoffs and then all of a sudden you just blaze through to the Finals. And I, every step of the way, I think, I’ll just speak for myself, but I think I think you guys will agree, you’re waiting for them to hit that wall, to finally run into a team that can just out-execute them in the playoffs, out-tough them in the playoffs, outplay them in the playoffs. And there was a moment where you thought maybe Minnesota is the team that does that, well, no. Maybe it’s Oklahoma City, and by the end of that Oklahoma City series, like, maybe Oklahoma City is sort of getting it together, and then you think surely it’s going to come in Game 7 on the road, at… this is where it falls apart, and it just never did. It never did. That the the inexperience never cost them, never came back to haunt them, they in fact, it seemed like they gained experience with each series, kind of put that in the computer, put it to use, and were better the next series. Like, it was just remarkable stuff that that I don’t think people really appreciate what we just saw. That team, this young… they they were the youngest, the the starting lineup that started the Western Conference Finals, because De’Aaron Fox was hurt by the way to start that series, was the youngest starting lineup in Conference Finals history. And that team went on to beat the defending champions on the road in a Game 7 to go to the NBA Finals. It’s remarkable stuff that, and I think it’s time to say that we we were we were wrong about all of this. Like, there’s there’s… if they lose to the Knicks, it’s not going to be because they’re inexperienced or because they they they’re not big enough for the moment or they don’t know what to do. If they lose to the Knicks, it’s just going to be because the Knicks ended up being the better team. But we were we were we were wrong that experience matters, at all. And maybe when you have a 7-foot-5 alien, experience is less important, I don’t know, maybe that’s the lesson here.
Mike Finger: And and you say that, there was an exception to the “this never happens” thing, but the exceptions are so like like, the one that that the team that had missed the playoffs for as many years as the Spurs had missed the playoffs and ended up winning the title was the the COVID bubble Lakers.
Jeff McDonald: Right.
Mike Finger: And, that team had LeBron James on it.
Jeff McDonald: Right. Right.
Mike Finger: It had Anthony Davis on it, two veteran guys who had been there a bunch of times before. And so, it was nothing like this team where, nobody on the… like, the experienced guy on this team is De’Aaron Fox, who played in one seven-game series in his entire career, and then you have role guys like Luke Kornet. I mean, there was nothing like this. And you and there are Spurs fans who are old enough to remember 1999 and remember that a young, up-and-coming 7-footer led a team to the NBA Championship early in his career, and only his second year in the NBA, which Tim Duncan did.
Jeff McDonald: But even that team had to go get its… Even that team had to get its teeth kicked in by the Jazz the year before.
Mike Finger: Correct. That team lost the year before, hit that wall. That team also had David Robinson and Sean Elliott and Avery Johnson and Mario Elie and on down the line. Like, that was an amazing accomplishment. It’s an outlier in NBA history for a franchise player in Tim Duncan to have won a title in his second year. That’s still not as remarkable as, if if the Spurs pull this off against the Knicks, what Victor Wembanyama has done in his third year, because, correct me if I’m wrong, Jeff, but I still think that this third year of, of Victor Wembanyama, he’s younger than, he’s younger than Tim Duncan was as a rookie.
Jeff McDonald: I believe that’s correct. It might be by a matter of months.
Mike Finger: I’m pretty sure he’s for sure he’s younger than Tim Duncan was in his second year. And so, it’s it’s, sounds like we’re just, sort of awestruck or, overstating things, but I don’t think you can overstate the the the unprecedented nature of what we’re witnessing. And it’s worth taking time to to note that. Now, the New York Knicks are well-rested. Sometimes that can work against a team heading into a heading into a series when they haven’t played in a week.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, eight days off is a long time in the NBA, and it doesn’t always work in your favor.
Mike Finger: Doesn’t always work in your favor. They do not have a player, a singular player, quite like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, which no one obviously does on a year when, SGA won back-to-back MVP awards, [laughter] but, as Jeff mentioned earlier, might be a tougher matchup, or a more complicated matchup, because of what we said about how SGA didn’t have any help. Like, the Knicks aren’t as deep in terms of playing as many rotation players as the Thunder had, but I think they have more guys capable of making a difference, of of of taking over a game, which the Thunder just had no one other than SGA that could step over, step up and take over a game. You looked at those games like as as Tom pointed out, there are stretches when Dylan Harper takes over against the Thunder, there are stretches where Stephon Castle takes over, Devin Vassell had his moments, De’Aaron Fox, after as Jeff mentioned being, injured to start that series, he hit some big shots in Game 6 and 7. The Knicks have more of those types of guys, and Jalen Brunson’s the head of the snake, but you have KAT, you have OG, Mikal Bridges kind of woke up from his slumber in the Conference Finals, Hart, I mean, they have got some guys who the Spurs need to to pay attention to, and, I’m I’m wondering how you guys think that’s going to play out.
Tom Orsborn: San Antonio… San Antonio’s Jordan Clarkson, too. Sorry, Jeff.
Mike Finger: There you go.
Jeff McDonald: Who always seems to be a Spurs killer for some reason. Always has big games against them. But the the Knicks, it’s their size everywhere is a problem. Outside of Brunson, everybody’s just huge. They’ve they’ve got big four men that have always been a problem for the Spurs, big physical four men. They’re going to, four men, [laughter] that’s funny. They’ve got Karl-Anthony Towns who can stretch you out, you know, a 7-footer who can stretch you out to the three-point line. It’s a much different matchup than Oklahoma City was, and I don’t know that, I don’t know that you can defend them the same way. It’s it’s going to take some tweaking there. There were some times in the regular-season meetings, what the Spurs like to do with Victor sometimes is put him on like a non-shooting wing and and let him kind of roam, let him kind of, almost cheat to the paint a little bit. And they did that with Josh Hart a lot in the regular-season meetings. And it’s a lot of the series might swing on what version of Josh Hart do you get, because I think I looked this up this morning, he’s a 40% three-point shooter through the season, but during the during the playoffs, he’s down to 30. So if he’s going to have one of those 2-for-12 Caruso games, the Spurs have a chance to defend them that way. If he’s going to hit shots, the Spurs are going to have to figure out something else.
Mike Finger: So if he has the other kind of Caruso game…
Jeff McDonald: The other kind of Caruso game, yeah.
Mike Finger: yeah, like the the OG position is the one that, where the Spurs are sort of vulnerable. When you have that big guy who’s who’s not the center, the Spurs don’t have that type of, that type that type of player, that that dunker spot position. I mean, you’re you’re still, as Tom pointed out, Julian Champagnie, shining on the big stage, has come through all year long, reliable at both ends of the floor, he’s playing some four for you, he’s basically your starting four.
Jeff McDonald: Starting four, yeah.
Mike Finger: And, and playing a team that has OG… OG is a big dude.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah.
Mike Finger: And Bridges is always been a tough cover for these guys for some reason. Like as poorly as he’s played to start the playoffs, that’s a guy you worry about too. He’s had some huge games against the Spurs.
Tom Orsborn: Well, when we were in Vegas, Mike, for the NBA Cup Final, yeah, OG and, Hart were two of the four players that had eight or more rebounds in that game. They just pounded the Spurs on the board. I think it was like 59-42. [laughter] That was the difference, they just they just, they were merciless on the boards. And that was coming from all directions.
Jeff McDonald: And that’s going to be the problem. Like like, Oklahoma City had some success in this series with rebounding and offensive rebounding and second-chance points, and and the Knicks are going to be that on steroids. So whatever the Spurs did in the second half of Game 7 against Oklahoma City to clean all that stuff up, that needs to be like an emphasis from from the jump in Game 1 of the Finals.
Mike Finger: Yep. Yep.
Mike Finger: it’s it’s, the fatigue’s catching up, fellas. Like, you know…
Jeff McDonald: You are the team.
Mike Finger: The… well, just for us, clearly not the team. , you know…
Jeff McDonald: I got a I got a good night’s rest.
Mike Finger: Yeah?
Jeff McDonald: Slept well.
Mike Finger: But, you know, it’s it’s often the second day, you know? You know, going back through the those those, road trips, Rodeo Road Trips, it’s not always the the day of the back-to-back, it’s the day after the back-to-back when it starts to catch up with you.
Mike Finger: I I don’t want to dwell on this too much, because it’s people are looking forward, but, I I mentioned a little bit of it earlier, the idea that that anyone, not on this podcast, of course, not in the San Antonio Express-News, but the idea that anyone ever tried to paint, Chet Holmgren as Victor Wembanyama’s archrival is becoming more and more comical to me.
Jeff McDonald: Yes. It was always… always has been.
Mike Finger: Poor Chet.
Jeff McDonald: Poor Chet.
Mike Finger: But watching seven games of it was, yeah…
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, like that that could prove to be…
Jeff McDonald: And look, I mean, I almost don’t want to say, I mean, it is poor Chet, but it’s it’s more of a reflection on who Victor Wembanyama is, because Chet Holmgren against 28 other teams is an All-NBA player and possibly the second-best defensive player in the world. But he gets on the floor with Victor Wembanyama, and he’s just dwarfed, literally, and then also just metaphysically and and mentally and and, emotionally, and in every way you can be dwarfed.
Mike Finger: Well, there’s moments in those games where it’s not even, he will he will have the ball looking at Julian Champagnie or Keldon Johnson, and it’s just he’s so scarred from the experience that he doesn’t even try to attack them, because he thinks that Victor might be back there somewhere.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah.
Mike Finger: the… that’s that’s incredible.
Jeff McDonald: And we’ve talked about it a lot, like people think Victor has some sort of personal vendetta against Chet, like, and maybe, I mean, going back to the the the, Under-19 tournament or whatever, but I don’t think it’s that. I think it’s his first couple years, people kept asking him about facing Chet when they’d play Oklahoma City, and his rivalry with Chet. And, you know, one was the number one pick in the draft, one was number two in back-to-back years, they’re kind of similar players, tall, skilled, multi-skilled. Like, I understand why people are asking the question, but Victor did not understand why people were asking the question, like, “You’re comparing me to this guy?” [laughter] “No, I’m I’m I’m I’m on the SGA level, I’m in the MVP conversation, I don’t really even think about this guy.” And then, so I think it’s just those questions every time they played Oklahoma City early in his career, where it’s sort of like, “Okay, I got to go like annihilate this guy so people stop asking me about him.”
Mike Finger: Yeah.
Jeff McDonald: And then it’s, I I think somewhere in there, Chet just got scarred and can’t do it anymore.
Mike Finger: To, to go… go ahead, Tom.
Tom Orsborn: Well, tying up loose ends and, covering all the bases here, giving the flowers to deserving parties, another thing that struck me, images, I talked about Brian Wright, but the the group photo, the kind of the official group photo of the guys in the caps with the… with the trophy after the game, off to the far left, you know, kind of kneeling down with a… with a cap on is a little guy, [laughter] and you’re thinking, you know, if you don’t know this team, you’re looking at it and you’re thinking, “Who is… who is that guy? Who is that bottom-of-the-bench player, young guy there?” It’s Mitch, Mitch Johnson. [laughter] And, you know, it was so funny, it just struck me, he looks… he looks like, I don’t want to say a ball boy, but he looked very young in that photo. And, man, he he coached his, his rear end off in that, series.
Mike Finger: I meant to ask you, Tom, I did not notice it until, I saw him in the hallway like an hour later, wearing his championship hat. And, he might have had this on on the stage, he might have had it on at the press conference, but I didn’t notice it till till much later, and I don’t know if you saw it. Did you notice his T-shirt?
Tom Orsborn: I did not. I did not.
Mike Finger: He had a, he had a white T-shirt with a black-and-white photo of it, and the black-and-white photo I believe was his father.
Tom Orsborn: Oh, oh, I see. Oh, yeah.
Jeff McDonald: Oh, I’ve seen that one before. Yeah.
Tom Orsborn: That is sweet.
Mike Finger: so, people out there who are watching on TV might be like, “Yes, Finger, obviously we all saw that,” but I did not notice it until late. So if you saw it, it was great, but if not…
Jeff McDonald: Well, Mitch Mitch got his revenge on the Sonics for leaving Seattle.
Mike Finger: That’s right. [laughter]
Jeff McDonald: Knocked the Thunder out of the playoffs.
Mike Finger: Wearing a Sonics shirt the night the Spurs eliminate the Thunder. There you go.
Tom Orsborn: And if you don’t know who his father is, John Johnson, maybe the original point forward, for the championship Seattle SuperSonics. Really good player, multi-All-Star player. just kind of kind of ahead of his time in in being able to, set up guys like a point guard from the… from the three position.
Jeff McDonald: And not to do the sliding doors things, but people that don’t know Mitch’s story, because John Johnson ended his career in Seattle, Mitch Johnson was born there a few years later, grew up in Seattle, was a Seattle guy, eventually runs into this, troubled youth named Dejounte Murray, counsels him, becomes sort of his mentor, the Spurs draft Dejounte Murray, and they bring Mitch Johnson along in 2016 to just be like a G League assistant, just to have someone on the staff who can kind of keep counseling this kid and help him matriculate to the NBA and not, you know, fall by the wayside or follow these temptations or whatever. And because of that, Mitch Johnson is in the Spurs’ fold, works his way up, they love him, shows his stuff, and, becomes as assistant to Gregg Popovich and now is the Spurs’ head coach coaching in the NBA Finals. So it’s all it all goes back to if if John Johnson is never playing for the Seattle SuperSonics, it’s possible Mitch Johnson is not coaching the San Antonio Spurs right now.
Tom Orsborn: I like it. I like it.
Mike Finger: And to build on that, and this is this could come off as homerish and, you know, it’s easy to talk about after the fact, what what have you, overhyped. Who do you think had a better gameplay? Who had a better coaching series, in the Western Conference Finals? Like, the young, untested Mitch Johnson, or the, or the, the the guy who… Mark D. is an incredible mind, love love hearing him talk pregame, by the way, he always says something that interests me. he’s done a heck of a job. He is he is an awesome coach. But to to to listen to, Thunder fans, or just NBA fans in general, exasperated with, “Why is this guy continuing to play Lu Dort? Why doesn’t he switch things up with, Chet?” what have you, it seems like an… and and this always happens no matter how a series turns out, the losing coach gets the grief, the winning coach gets the flowers. But, there was a time, last year after Gregg Popovich was sidelined, when this 30- then-37-year-old is thrust into this job, where it’s there there was talk that, oh, he’s overmatched, and and how can a guy who’s never been through it before make calls, motivate people, coach at this type level. And the the Spurs had, from Shaun Sweeney, you know, net going on down the line, Corliss Williamson, Matt Nielsen, that staff had a hell of a series. They pushed the right buttons. They were down 3-2. They were behind a couple times in that series, always came back. And, they had their guys in the right spots. I’m not saying that they wiped the floor with the OKC coaching staff, but the coaching staff that Mitch put together, and Mitch himself, like, they they have done the job every bit as much as, as Wemby and company have. And I thought that was worth noting.
Jeff McDonald: Absolutely. It’s the whole it’s the whole staff, too. That’s been the biggest one of the biggest differences this year has been just that super-sized coaching staff, that supercharged coaching staff that they have. and they didn’t fire anybody, it’s not like they ran people out. They they added to what they already had, you know, they they lost Pop from the staff, obviously, and, Brett Brown moved into more of like a consulting, front-office role, so they had some some stuff to fill. They didn’t run anybody off, they just added to Matt Nielsen and and Mike Noyes. And, yeah, all those guys have brought something. We we can talk for hours about what Shaun Sweeney has done for this, organization, now he’s headed to Orlando, and that will be probably the biggest hole to fill in the off-season once we get there, is, who who’s going to be Mitch’s right-hand man going forward. But it it’s it’s it’s been a, maybe an under-reported story in the Spurs’ 62-win NBA Finals season, but probably the biggest additions in the off-season were might have been the coaches they brought in.
Tom Orsborn: And, one more to mention on there, Scott King, who was with the Knicks for five years, four years as their player development guy. He he was really, I, you know, with Thibodeau, he was really instrumental, on that staff, especially with, coach’s challenges. So that was a good addition, too, that they swiped from the Knicks.
Mike Finger: And by the way, Jeff talked about this we don’t want to get into the off-season when we’re about to cover the NBA Finals, but when you’re talking about the biggest hole to fill being the Shaun Sweeney hole, when you’re a team that has Victor Wembanyama and Stephon Castle and Dylan Harper on it, and you’ve made the NBA Finals after missing the playoffs for six years…
Jeff McDonald: You’ll probably have a good pool of applicants.
Mike Finger: They’re going to be it’s they’re going to be able to choose somebody, they’re not going to have to find somebody.
Jeff McDonald: That’s what I’m saying. You will probably have a very deep and and and quality pool of applicants for that for that position.
Mike Finger: A couple of years ago, when they were going through the wilderness, and Gregg Popovich would have openings, it was like, they struggled, it was who wants to come join this team that is going through it, and where the head coach you never knew from year to year whether the head coach would stay around, and maybe if Gregg Popovich retires, you might be out of work, like, that was a that was a problem for a while in in recent Spurs history, attracting the top-level assistants. That is not a problem anymore. I think there are a lot of people, basically everyone who doesn’t have a head-coaching job is going to be interested in being Mitch’s right-hand man next year. So, as you’re watching the NBA Finals this year and fretting about the off-season, if you’re if you want to do that kind of thing, don’t worry about that, I think I think that that will be taken care of.
Mike Finger: I think we I think we did everything backwards.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, we did.
Mike Finger: We covered everything backwards. Any anything left to discuss moving forward, what are you most looking forward to seeing in these first just in these first two games in San Antonio, Tom? Anything that peaks your interest?
Tom Orsborn: Well, again, they’ve they’ve proven the the, rap on the Spurs, the knock on the Spurs, much of the season was they’re not physical enough. And they they’ve proven that that that that wasn’t true, but it’s a new level of physicality against these big, bad New York Knicks. So that’s what I’m going to be looking for. Can they rise to that?
Mike Finger: Jeff?
Jeff McDonald: I want to see…
Mike Finger: These are the things to look forward to, brought to you by Jeff.
Jeff McDonald: Brought to you by Jeff. I want to see what color Jeremy Sochan’s hair is [laughter] for the NBA Finals.
Jeff McDonald: And also I want to say hi to him. I want to see how he’s doing. He seems to be… I don’t know the answer to this question, it might be one that we need to we need to, investigate as the series goes along, but does he get an NBA Championship ring either way?
Tom Orsborn: That’s a good question.
Mike Finger: I would I would sort of doubt it.
Jeff McDonald: You would doubt it? You don’t think the Spurs would give him one?
Mike Finger: I don’t know.
Jeff McDonald: We got to ask questions. I don’t know. I don’t even know how it works, do they vote on it? Do they…
Mike Finger: I think they do.
Tom Orsborn: Knowing the Spurs, they would be inclined to do it, I would think.
Jeff McDonald: Maybe they will. Maybe they will.
Mike Finger: should be fun. We’re going to stick to our routine, I know people will, have have have been demanding a a timelier Spurs Insider podcast, but Keldon Johnson, as he said…
Jeff McDonald: I’ll tell you what.
Mike Finger: If…
Jeff McDonald: If you want an emergency pod, if you want a sponsor for it, we’ll do it. Give us some money, we’ll do it.
Mike Finger: Jeff’s always be closing, ABC, always be…
Tom Orsborn: My my another big question is, will we be able to work comfortably late into the night at Madison Square Garden?
Jeff McDonald: The answer is no.
Tom Orsborn: My experience is, I got to be ready to get get the heck out of there.
Mike Finger: Yeah, because it’s…
Jeff McDonald: I think our, friend of the podcast, I’ll name-drop him now, Tom Petrini, he had a good idea. There’s Penn Station right below you, all kinds of little restaurants and coffee shops, we just go down there, jump on their Wi-Fi, and write our final stories.
Tom Orsborn: we’ve been working pretty late, [laughter] we’ll see.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah.
Tom Orsborn: New York New York’s the city that doesn’t sleep, but it’s my experience that that’s kind of not true, so…
Jeff McDonald: The press box sleeps, the press room sleeps for sure.
Jeff McDonald: Maybe we should shoot our postgame video down there in Penn Station. That would be fun.
Mike Finger: Anyway, my point is, before people started talking about filing their stories, that that I know that it’s it’s the star attraction, no one cares about the podcast, they care about print journalism, [laughter] that is that is the future.
Jeff McDonald: Exactly.
Jeff McDonald: It’s coming back around.
Mike Finger: My point is…
Jeff McDonald: Bell-bottom jeans.
Mike Finger: That all these demands for us to shake things up, I want to answer like Keldon Johnson does when people ask him to turn the music down in the locker room after the game. He’s we’ve been playing this music this loud all season long, and we’re not going to change it up just because… This was after like game, this was after a loss, wasn’t it, Jeff?
Jeff McDonald: Yes. Yes.
Mike Finger: It was a lo- It might have been the loss that put them down 3-2 on the brink of elimination.
Jeff McDonald: Yes.
Mike Finger: And there’s, there’s interviews, quiet, hushed interviews trying to be, done, performed in one corner of the locker room. Meanwhile, Keldon Johnson brings his giant, ridiculous boombox in at at at peak levels, and a a PR man looks at him and says, “You know, come on, Keldon, come on.” He says, “We’ve been playing this all year long, we’re not going to change it now.” And how did that work out? The Spurs won the next two games, going to the NBA Finals. The Spurs Insider podcast is working till June! [music]
Jeff McDonald: My god.
Mike Finger: And and until the next time we see you, keep your gratitude higher than your expectations, take care of each other, and keep it real. [music]