Spurs Insider Podcast, 2026-05-26 00:58:00
专栏作家迈克·芬格 (Mike Finger) 与随队记者杰夫·麦克唐纳 (Jeff McDonald) 和汤姆·奥斯本 (Tom Orsborn) 共同探讨了维克托·文班亚马 (Victor Wembanyama) 在半场结束前的超远三分，以及他和马刺队如何锁死俄克拉荷马城雷霆，将西部决赛大比分扳成 2-2 平。
*推荐阅读：*
为什么文班亚马在马刺扳平雷霆的系列赛中“动了真格”：_Client Challenge
遭遇第三场失利后，格雷格·波波维奇 (Gregg Popovich) 对马刺队说了“重话”：_Client Challenge
马刺对阵雷霆：第五场天王山之战取胜钥匙：_Client Challenge
文班亚马与马刺反击雷霆的3大启示：_Client Challenge
马刺的达龙·福克斯 (De’Aaron Fox) 是如何靠着一条好腿抢下10个篮板的：_https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/how-spurs-de-aaron-fox-managed-corral-10-22275155.php_
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以下是播客文字记录：
旁白：本期《马刺内幕》（Spurs Insider）由肖恩·C·布朗律师事务所赞助播出。
迈克·芬格：这里是来自德克萨斯州南部多个高度安全、绝密地点的《马刺内幕》“动真格”版。我是迈克·芬格，今天与我一起的依然是《快报》（Express-News）马刺随队记者团——焕发新生的杰夫·麦克唐纳和坚韧不拔的汤姆·奥斯本。我们是在阵亡将士纪念日的早上录制这期节目的。这周不需要奇迹，在对阵俄克拉荷马城雷霆的西部决赛第四场中，我们当地的马刺众将不需要任何奇迹。这是他们在本届系列赛中首次面临1-2落后的局面，他们迫切需要赢下一场比赛来重回正轨。而他们交出了一份完美的答卷。正如文班亚马所说，杰夫，这没有什么惊天动地的，也没有什么魔法，但他们把该办的事办好了。现在，西部决赛变成了三局两胜的决战。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：所以，我们来聊聊昨晚的比赛。马刺队奉献了一场怎样的防守教科书般的表现啊！82分。他们把俄克拉荷马城限制得只得到82分。我是说，这简直太不可思议了。当你把一个NBA对手限制在82分时，你大概能赢下100%的比赛。我最喜欢的统计数据——我不知道，这又不是一个数据播客，我觉得我们不太热衷于数据，因为它们通常很枯燥。但昨晚比赛中我最喜欢的数据是，马刺队的进攻效率是101.6。也就是每100回合得到101.6分。呃，要知道，今年常规赛中NBA进攻最差的球队是奥兰多魔术，他们的进攻效率是101.9。所以马刺昨晚的进攻比全联盟最差的进攻还要糟糕，但他们却赢了21分。这完全是因为他们在球场另一端的表现，也就是：第一，让谢伊·吉尔杰斯-亚历山大 (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander) (SGA) 过得极其痛苦；第二，也不让他身边那群快乐的帮手打出状态。当你把这两件事都做好时，马刺就赢定了。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的，亚历克斯·卡鲁索 (Alex Caruso) 吞了个大鸭蛋。［停顿］这里有一些枯燥的数据：这是雷霆自19——不，19，划掉，自——
迈克·芬格：要是19几几年那可真神了。
汤姆·奥斯本：——自2021年以来单场最低得分，当时他们在惨败给孟菲斯的比赛中仅得79分。是的，他们的三分命中率只有18.2%。要知道，在早上的训练中，福克斯一直在反复强调这一点，就是去干扰三分球。这是他们在第三场比赛中做得极差的地方，而昨晚他们一上场，就像杰夫说的那样，完全就是一场防守教学课。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：昨晚赛后福克斯还透露了另一个数字，我还没来得及核实，但如果是真的，那相当惊人。他说他们统计过，他们干扰了俄克拉荷马城91%的投篮，这是一个巨大的数字。当你做到这一点时，任何一支NBA球队都很难得分，因为你几乎每一次都防到了他们的脸上。
迈克·芬格：而且，能做到这一点的途径之一——如果我们想进入本期播客的战术细节部分，这和数据一样，都是我们的拿手好戏。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：确实，没错。
迈克·芬格：这正是听众收听的原因。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：顺便问一下，如果既不是数据也不是战术，那我们的强项到底是什么？你觉得我们在这里是干嘛的？
迈克·芬格：我觉得，我们的强项是插科打诨。但文班亚马说不能再开玩笑了，所以我们现在的处境有点尴尬。我们得重新定位一下了。
汤姆·奥斯本：雷·查尔斯 (Ray Charles) 的那首歌，《Mess Around》。
迈克·芬格：对，《Mess Around》。
汤姆·奥斯本：还有电影《落难见真情》（Planes, Trains and Automobiles）。
迈克·芬格：但是，能够干扰91%的投篮——这可是福克斯提供的数据，呃，“福克斯数据与研究中心”，我们必须注明这个出处。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：好吧，呃，哦，我不该提这个的，我这算是打开了潘多拉魔盒。
迈克·芬格：［笑声］忘掉“福克斯数据与研究中心”吧。叫“达龙数据与研究中心”怎么样？听起来是不是好点？［笑声］呃，能做到这一点的一个方法是，用你最好的防守人去单防这位两届NBA MVP亚历山大，而不是在他每次过半场时就派两个人甚至三个人去包夹他，这在系列赛前期曾是马刺的策略。我理解之前的思路，你得让对方最好的球员在场上付出一切努力，试图让他过得痛苦。但他太擅长破解包夹了，总是能把球传给卡鲁索和贾里德·麦凯恩 (Jared McCain) 们，或者随便哪个帮手。所以他们在第四场中反其道而行之，基本上把斯蒂芬·卡斯尔 (Stephon Castle) 放在了防守单打的“孤岛”上。当然，他身后有文班亚马协防，需要时也有其他人帮忙，但总体而言，这更像是一个一对一单防的防守计划。卡斯尔这小伙子，真的站了出来。呃，这听起来像是一句废话，他这赛季已经很多次做到这一点了。他经常负责防守对方最好的球员。但在某些时段，亚历山大看起来真的很挣扎。面对马刺的防守，他没有太多应对办法。他可是两届MVP。这在第五场可能会有所改变，雷霆会像马刺那样做出调整。但杰夫说得对，第四场是一部防守杰作。而且，我不知道，米奇·约翰逊 (Mitch Johnson) 和马克·戴格诺特 (Mark Daigneault) 都谈到了这轮系列赛中的博弈，博弈已经开始了，伙计们。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：博弈已经开始了。看着这样的表现，我不想把话题引向你讨厌的方向，但你真的会纳闷，卡斯尔怎么会连一个最佳防守阵容都没进。他离防守二阵只差了一票。呃，说句实话，我把他放在了我的防守一阵名单里。但，他最终一个都没进。我想今年NBA里优秀的防守者实在太多了，如果你看看那10人名单，很难挑出哪个人说：“这家伙没那么厉害，他不配这个荣誉。”所以很难决定把谁拿掉。但当你像我一样，看完了他今年82场常规赛加季后赛的比赛，你很难不觉得他应该出现在最佳防守阵容里。他的防守全面性、坚韧、竞争心和身体对抗性简直太惊人了。［笑声］我是说，他可能是我记忆中马刺队里对抗最强悍的球员了。我是指在承担主要战术角色的球员里，不仅是像那些恶汉或打手类型的球员，而是一个真正的核心球员，同时也是你这辈子见过的身体对抗最强悍的人。
迈克·芬格：别忘了马刺以前可是拥有过科怀·伦纳德 (Kawhi Leonard) 的。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：［笑声］是的，没错。这可能就是对比对象。我敢向上帝发誓，我觉得卡斯尔在身体对抗上简直是无情的。伦纳德的部分情况是，他很快就不得不成为球队的主要得分手。所以他必须承担更多——我是说，在某些阶段他身边可没有文班亚马。所以他必须去得分，无法把所有的精力和身体对抗都用在防守上。但卡斯尔可以，你完全可以放手让他去死缠对手。而且这不仅仅是持球防守。看着他绕过雷霆或任何对手为了摆脱他而设置的每一次掩护，他在人群中穿梭、绕行、对抗，这真的太引人瞩目了。我是说，昨晚霜冻银行中心（Frost Bank Center）地板上出现血迹［笑声］并不令人意外，因为场上的对抗简直就是一场白刃战。
汤姆·奥斯本：从历史的角度来看，我会说他是自阿尔文·罗伯特森 (Alvin Robertson) 以来身体对抗最强悍的球员。阿尔文也是那种类型的球员，就像一只斗牛犬，身体非常强壮。
迈克·芬格：抱歉刚才打断了你，汤姆。你看起来很疲惫。这确实是一个漫长的系列赛。
汤姆·奥斯本：没事，迈克。我从早上睁眼一直到晚上睡觉都很疲惫。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：［笑声］我以为你是那种内心极度平静的人呢。
汤姆·奥斯本：是啊。
迈克·芬格：平静的心态受到考验了，汤姆？
汤姆·奥斯本：是的。
迈克·芬格：好吧，我……
汤姆·奥斯本：不管怎么说。
迈克·芬格：你继续。
汤姆·奥斯本：但是，是的，我是说，阿尔文当年也是那样。他是个非常强壮的家伙，卡斯尔也是一样，浑身都是肌肉，充满韧性，就像一只斗牛犬。
迈克·芬格：正如杰夫指出的，昨晚的进攻并不好。他们的三分投得不好。虽然这已经彻底碾压了俄克拉荷马城的三分命中率，但是［笑声］马刺确实又一次打好了开局。今年季后赛的又一场比赛，之前有首轮、次轮和西决，今年一共打了15场季后赛。几乎每一场比赛，马刺一开场都能迅速进入状态。他们很少有在一开始就给自己挖坑的情况。而这一次，是文班亚马先生从一开始就奠定了基调。就在两天前，他还说过他需要、也对自己有更高的期望。他需要做更多来帮助队友，需要做更多来奠定基调。我们又在重复自己了，我们一次又一次地谈论这家伙有多么离谱。但在第四场比赛中，他又做到了。我想在开场的前几分钟里，他用一记三分球为球队首开纪录，又用一个对切特·霍姆格伦 (Chet Holmgren) 的盖帽开启了防守大闸，接着打出了一个完全由他主宰的半场，为自己是“真正的MVP”提供了有力的佐证，并以第二节压哨的一记半场超远三分完美收尾。那是他在NBA比赛中投进的最远的一球。杰夫，几周前我们在媒体席上聊天时，甚至可能在这期播客里提到过——我不记得播客里有没有说过了——他在NBA球场上做得最糟糕的事［笑声］就是尝试那些超远投篮：半场投篮、四分之三场地投篮之类的。那些投篮通常会让他看起来像个凡人。有时你在投篮训练后观察他，他其实投不——
杰夫·麦克唐纳：投得像我一样。
迈克·芬格：没错！［笑声］确实！而且，伙计，你看第二节最后几秒的回放，德文·瓦塞尔 (Devin Vassell) 拿到了篮板，文班在挥舞着双臂大喊：“把球给我。”瓦塞尔很聪明地把球传给了他。运了三下球到中场，然后球空心入网。就像是，他当然能投进，这还用说吗。［笑声］而且，有趣的是，卡斯尔的反应和场馆里所有马刺球迷的反应一模一样，简直要疯了。他像个小宝宝一样直接跳进了文班的怀里。卡斯尔当时太兴奋了。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：那可真是个巨大的宝宝。
迈克·芬格：确实是个巨婴。赛后我问了卡斯尔这件事，他说：“我觉得这似乎是当时最合适、最正确的反应。”而且，伙计，那家伙又一次在大场面证明了自己。未来还会有更多这样的时刻。但如果你想想，这就是我们《马刺内幕》播客录制时机有趣的地方，这取决于我们是在一周中的哪一天、在系列赛的哪一场比赛之后录制。如果我们是在两天前录制，那气氛肯定就像世界末日一样。在迪伦·哈珀 (Dylan Harper) 浑身是伤、福克斯也带伤作战，并且雷霆似乎已经摸透了他们的情况下，马刺怎么可能翻盘？他们怎么可能重新找回局势？而现在，陷入绝望的似乎变成了对方的更衣室。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，这很有趣。这已经是这轮系列赛中第三次——我通常不是一个容易被眼前局势左右的人，但这已经是第三次［笑声］让我在系列赛中产生“哦，结束了，A队已经看穿了B队，一切都结束了”的想法。但其实并没有结束。不过，是的，马刺昨晚的反击确实非常精彩。回到文班的那记投篮，虽然在一场大胜21分的比赛中，过度解读一个3分球似乎有点小题大做，但当时确实感觉局势有些动摇。马刺曾打出一波18-0的高潮，在第二节一度领先了大半个18分。然后雷霆开始蚕食分差，把比分追到了个位数。你会想，如果他们带着个位数的分差进入半场休息，那就有点重蹈覆辙了——“瞧，之前那些比赛就是这样，马刺手握巨大领先优势却痛失好局，然后雷霆顺势逆转夺走胜利。”我不觉得我夸大了那记将分差拉回到12分的半场超远三分的意义，当你下半场走出来看到记分牌上是领先12分而不是9分时，它确实给马刺带来了一些势头，或许还有心理上的优势。我确实认为这在下半场开局阶段起到了一点作用，而且我认为正是这个球带动了他们下半场的势头，并最终导向了后来的比赛结果。
迈克·芬格：我们又打断汤姆了。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：天哪，你为什么总是这么做？对不起。
汤姆·奥斯本：［笑声］没事，没关系。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：这儿有个麦霸呢。
汤姆·奥斯本：而且，伤病的阴霾现在也转移到了俄克拉荷马城。马刺这边，值得称赞的是，多亏了福克斯和哈珀，他们挺过了难关。自从脚踝受伤复出后的两场比赛中，福克斯的表现都相当不错。昨晚他拖着一条伤腿还领跑全队的篮板球。但现在雷霆那边，AJ·米切尔 (AJ Mitchell) 小腿受伤，这当然不是开玩笑的；还有杰伦·威廉姆斯 (Jaylen Williams) 的腿筋伤势，这几乎困扰了他整个季后赛乃至整个赛季。所以，是的，就像我说的，伤病的阴霾已经转移了。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：这带来的后果是，雷霆不仅是损失了两个关键球员，而且这两个人……我是说，雷霆目前唯一真正合格的控球手就只有亚历山大了。所以当他下场休息或者需要第二持球点帮手时，通常是米切尔或者威廉姆斯来协助控球和组织进攻。而现在，雷霆无人可用了。雷霆只能靠亚历山大硬撑了。你不得不相信，这就是昨晚雷霆出现20次失误的重要原因。在整个常规赛中，他们只有一次单场出现过20次失误。所以，除非能迎回这两个人，否则缺乏控球点将在接下来的比赛中对雷霆造成致命打击。这种局势的逆转真的很有意思，因为在马刺球员大面积受伤的那场比赛（不管是第二场还是第三场）之后，大家都在问：“马刺失去了三名主力控球手里的两个，他们该怎么组织进攻？”我觉得汤姆说得对。你真的必须给哈珀和福克斯记上一功，仅仅因为他们站在了场上，即使大家都清楚他们两个都远未恢复到100%的状态。你可以从他们的表现和移动方式中看出来。昨晚我看着福克斯走进更衣室换衣服，他走路的样子……他大概28岁吧，但他走起路来像个68岁的老头。你真的会纳闷：这家伙刚才怎么打完一场NBA季后赛的？所以，对于这些家伙来说，只要能站出来、留在场上提供控球支持，就算他们什么都不做，不得分、投不进球、或者没有像福克斯昨晚那样抢下10个篮板，只要他们能在那儿控球，随时提供支持，对球队来说就是巨大的助力。
迈克·芬格：昨晚赛后发布会上有一个经典的“送分题”问达龙：“赢球有没有让你的脚踝感觉好一点？”［笑声］他说：“没有。”［笑声］“并没有，还是疼。”呃，是的。你完全能看出来。就像看哈珀打球，在今年季后赛的前几场比赛中，他简直是一个巨大的惊喜。昨晚他依然有一些五佳球级别的突破，但没有以前那么多了。有时你以为他会像马努 (Manu)（吉诺比利）那样完成终结——他之前经常这么做，但随后他却选择了一个急停跳投或者传球什么的。在可预见的未来，这是他们必须面对的现实。我不认为他们指望福克斯的脚踝能在季后赛结束前彻底痊愈。但让这些家伙留在场上贡献力量，而不是像杰威 (J-Dub) 和米切尔那样只能在场边看着，这正是马刺的巨大优势。
马刺的另一个巨大优势，也是我们播客里又一个“给他送上掌声”的时刻。昨晚约翰逊说了一番让我特别注意的话，他说马刺阵容中有一位球员，可能是他们整个季后赛乃至全年表现最稳定的球员。约翰逊指出，这位球员每晚表现的上限和下限之间的差距是最小的。他就是瓦塞尔。你很清楚他每晚能贡献什么。他在攻防两端都是如此。他只是默默耕耘。他可能不会在数据单上砍下30分，但他绝不会毫无贡献。汤姆，你在今年季后赛写过很多关于他的文章。昨晚又是瓦塞尔的一场经典表现，充满了各种高光时刻：他在攻防两端都有建树，封盖、抢篮板，然后到另一端给文班送出空接。拥有这样的球员，才是你赢得西部冠军并杀入总决赛的关键。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的，第一节的那次攻防转换，他们凭借那次配合将比分改写为21-8。他先是封盖了麦凯恩的反手上篮，抢下篮板，运球推进，然后给文班送出空接。我是说，对我而言，这完美地浓缩了他在整个季后赛中的作用，就是极佳的攻防一体表现。昨晚我也提到，约翰逊在这方面功不可没。这是他的心血结晶之一，他一直担任瓦塞尔的球员发展教练，但在他成为代理主教练后，他跟瓦塞尔坐下来谈了谈，说：“你需要在攻防两端都站出来。”这就是我们现在所看到的。他为我们今天看到的一切奠定了基础。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：在赛季开始前，我记得瓦塞尔告诉我，肖恩·斯威尼 (Sean Sweeney) 曾让他坐下来，给他看他在佛罗里达州立大学时期的大学比赛录像，看他当时在防守端是如何飞天遁地、四处扫荡的，并对他说：“这就是你需要成为的那种球员。那个家伙去哪儿了？让我们把他找回来。”这就是我们现在从他身上看到的。我是说，对我而言，瓦塞尔投进的那些球现在几乎只是锦上添花了。光是看他在防守端飞奔扫荡、完成防守回合就足够了。他是这套防守体系行之有效的关键因素之一。他是雷霆昨晚仅得区区82分的重要原因。现在似乎每场比赛，他都会送出令人惊叹的盖帽，每一场瓦塞尔都会在篮下给对手送出火锅，那种震撼感几乎要穿透屏幕。但关键在于他在攻防两端无所不能。我认为，如果对比一个球员的角色定位，他可能不输给今年NBA季后赛任何一支球队的任何球员。就像你说的，他不是超级巨星，不会砍下30分，但如果你看谁能在每晚最完美地履行自己的角色、满足球队的需求，我认为他就是今年季后赛中做得最好的球员之一。
迈克·芬格：戴格诺特在赛前谈到过这一点，可能是第三场比赛前。约翰逊可能也提到过。约翰逊和戴格诺特在很多方面都让我觉得非常相似。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，没错。
迈克·芬格：从他们思考比赛和谈论比赛的方式来看。我也许把两人的采访搞混了，但仔细想想，可能更多是约翰逊说的。执教很大一部分工作就是杰夫刚才所说的那样。那就是和阵容中的每一位球员坐下来，明确定义你希望他们做些什么。那是什么样子的，那个角色具体是怎样的，那个角色的边界和要求是什么，这样球员才能明白你对他的期望。这可不是简单地对每个人说：“我们希望你努力打球、抢篮板、防守、传球”之类的话。那太宽泛了，我是说，那根本没用。你必须具体到：“当瓦塞尔成为圣安东尼奥马刺队最完美的先发侧翼时，他应该是什么样子的。”我认为约翰逊做到了，斯威尼做到了，马刺整个管理层都做到了。他们对朱利安·尚帕尼 (Julian Champagnie) 也是这么做的，对卢克·科内特 (Luke Kornet) 也是这么做的，在本赛季的某个时刻，当他们把哈里森·巴恩斯 (Harrison Barnes) 移出首发阵容时，对他也同样是这么做的。在这样的系列赛中，你就能看到这种工作的成效。当你审视马刺的阵容，看到球员们踏上球场，他们非常清楚自己被赋予了什么期望。他们并没有每个人都试图去当文班亚马，而是努力在自己的角色里做到最好。再说一次，这就是你击败卫冕冠军的方式。
汤姆·奥斯本：各司其职。就像比尔·贝利切克 (Bill Belichick) 说的：“做好你的本职工作。”作为播客主持人，迈克·芬格也很像这样，他明确了我们的角色。
迈克·芬格：汤姆，这听起来有点讽刺啊。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的。好吧，我们的角色就是忍受他的废话。所以，［笑声］这确实定义得很明确。
迈克·芬格：好吧，你们在这方面做得确实不错。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：而且我们已经练习了30年。
汤姆·奥斯本：这……太奇怪了。真让人沮丧。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我知道。［笑声］我知道。认识这家伙30年确实挺让人沮丧的。一点没错。
汤姆·奥斯本：杰夫，想想我们都挺过了些什么，我们都熬过来了。
迈克·芬格：你们两位在不同的时期，都认识这个当时还是青少年的、如今头发花白的老头。那可真是一段往事。呃，是的。你们刚刚打乱了我的节奏。［笑声］这就像是……你知道的。我们是在瞎闹吗？文班昨晚说他不再开玩笑了。而我们又开始插科打诨了。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，我们又开始瞎闹了。
迈克·芬格：现在是三局两胜的局面了。杰夫，这现在是一个数据播客，一个战术战略播客，［笑声］一个篮球深度分析播客。大家甚至可以说这是一堂教练教学课。在接下来的三局两胜对决中，大家需要知道《圣安东尼奥快报》（expressnews.com）给出的，在俄克拉荷马城进行的第五场天王山之战的取胜钥匙。如果可以的话，给我们剧透一下取胜的关键吧。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：剧透？你觉得这个词该怎么拼？
迈克·芬格：［笑声］噢，怎么拼都行。［笑声］最后，我的临时编辑，请继续。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：呃，我的意思是，部分关键在于重复上一场比赛在防守端的表现。我觉得他们可能已经找到了一种行之有效的方法。我想你可以预料到俄克拉荷马城会试图做出调整，努力让亚历山大摆脱卡斯尔的纠缠，获得一些空间。但这最终将取决于雷霆的角色球员能否打出第二场和第三场那样的神级表现。我是说，说实话，卡鲁索在这轮系列赛开局打出了他职业生涯最不可思议的连续三场得分表现，然后第四场一分未得。如果那些人哑火了，如果你能限制住他们，你就有很大的机会赢球。然后，我认为文班也必须延续昨晚的表现。他必须再次在攻防两端展现统治力。他必须是那个从跳球开始就为所有人奠定基调的人。如果他能展现统治力，如果他在进攻端打得坚决，并且像第四场开局那样在防守端统治比赛，马刺就会有一个好的开局。至于第三个，第三个取胜钥匙我稍后再想。
迈克·芬格：尽管防守做得很好，尽管他们极大地限制了对手的三分投篮——根据达龙·福克斯的“达龙数据与研究中心”，干扰率达到了91%。但这依然不能完全解释雷霆如此糟糕的命中率。有人手头有数据吗？我记得雷霆一度是30投4中，最后的结果估计也差不多。无论有没有受到干扰，雷霆都会投进更多这样的球，尤其是在他们的主场。所以，对马刺来说，好消息是他们有20分的容错空间，多丢几个球也无伤大雅。但是，呃……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：不过，希望你们到时候不要再打出全NBA最烂的进攻了。比如，你们可以提高进攻端的上限。
迈克·芬格：或者是下限。我总是把这两个词搞混，但无所谓了。
汤姆·奥斯本：说得对，有很多容错空间，对吧，迈克？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：很多容错空间。
迈克·芬格：呃，我想弄清楚这里到底发生了什么。得有人去查查。我们现在简直是在演《教父》。呃，还有什么我们遗漏的吗？我们谈到了血迹，谈到了插科打诨。那血迹是怎么回事？清理工作又是怎么回事？那可真是一桩奇事。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的。［笑声］地板上到处都是血。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：球场的两端、地板上、凯尔登身上全是，甚至还弄到了篮板上。血迹溅到了篮板玻璃上。他们真的得去清理篮板玻璃了。
汤姆·奥斯本：凯尔登看起来就像——再来一个黑帮片的梗——他看起来就像西尔维奥·丹特 (Silvio Dante)，迈克，［笑声］就是当他旁边的人在意大利餐厅里被干掉时，鲜血溅了他一身。凯尔登当时的样子，尤其是他的背部，就有点像那样。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的。我们推断血是从霍姆格伦身上流出来的，对吧？
迈克·芬格：是从他的手指流出来的，没错。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：他的手指，是的。我们看到队医在处理他的手指。
汤姆·奥斯本：嗯，是的。就像卡斯尔赛后说的那样，他说他对这场比赛、这个系列赛见血并不感到意外。我稍微转述了一下他的原话，但这就是他的态度。当时场面真是一片血淋淋的混乱。
迈克·芬格：事情是这样的，你们两个切到过手指吗？我知道你经常想切掉一根手指。我知道你做梦都想切掉某根特定的手指。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的。
汤姆·奥斯本：是的。
迈克·芬格：但我年轻的时候，有一次用刀切苹果时，把自己的手指尖切掉了一截。结果就是，听音频播客的人看不到，当你切到手指尖时，血就会往外喷。我觉得霍姆格伦当时就是这种情况。我怀疑他就是手指尖被切到了，血喷得到处都是。然后清理工作持续了很长一段时间。这其实挺有意思的。我们需要喘口气。我们需要休息。我们都需要休息来缓一缓。如果我没记错的话，《快报》曾有一位名叫吉姆·莫斯 (Jim Moss) 的编辑，他在干农活时失去了一根手指。吉姆做了很多农场和牧场的工作。
汤姆·奥斯本：嗯。是的。
迈克·芬格：这在农场里很常见。我亲眼见过。比如被卷进打包机什么的。
汤姆·奥斯本：嗯。
迈克·芬格：而且，吉姆·莫斯并不是第一位想要“少一根手指”的《快报》编辑。［笑声］我想还有其他人也［笑声］曾经……
杰夫·麦克唐纳：我都想切掉一根手指来逃避录这个播客。
迈克·芬格：好吧，那我们就看看当你的使用率上升时，你的数据会变成什么样。让我们看看［笑声］当球队的组织者请假一周，当他不得不作壁上观时会发生什么。让我们看看［笑声］你以为的高命中率、投篮命中率、还有你的效率值（PER）会怎么样。让我们看看当防守注意力全部集中在你身上时会发生什么。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：呼应一下我本周写的另一篇文章，这个播客的“组织者”有点像克里斯·保罗 (Chris Paul)。你知道的，一开始挺管用，有一段时间进展顺利，但他最终会消磨掉每个人的耐心。［笑声］你最后只想摆脱他。
迈克·芬格：在我们去赶飞机回可爱的俄克拉荷马城之前，我们还有几分钟时间。杰夫，你对这两支打进西部决赛的球队的“克里斯·保罗时代”做了一个很好的回顾。戴格诺特给你讲了一个好故事，约翰逊也给你提供了一些有趣的细节。那个小家伙、那个小混蛋留下的印记依然深深烙印在这两支球队身上，对吧？
杰夫·麦克唐纳：确实有一些，那个小独裁者。
迈克·芬格：是的。
杰夫·麦克唐纳：是的，你说得对。我是说，虽然保罗离开雷霆已经有一段时间了，但他在那里留下的最深印记是，他曾在那里打了一年，而那一年正好是亚历山大通过快船的交易加盟雷霆的那一年。所以保罗可以说是亲自传授他，帮助塑造了你今天所看到的这个两届MVP“怪兽”。然后去年我们都在现场，见证了保罗对马刺更衣室的影响，对卡斯尔、文班亚马，甚至是一些——如果这不矛盾的话——中生代年轻骨干，比如瓦塞尔和凯尔登·约翰逊 (Keldon Johnson) 的影响，教他们如何赢球、如何准备比赛、如何看录像、如何保养身体等等。我想马刺更衣室里的任何人都会告诉你，虽然说“如果没有保罗的那一年，马刺就不会打进西部决赛”可能有些夸张，但那绝对是百利而无一害。他帮助他们为未来的发展奠定了基础。如果这群小伙子未来再次夺得NBA总冠军，那其中也一定有保罗的一份功劳。
迈克·芬格：没错。汤姆。
汤姆·奥斯本：还有一个人，长话短说，昨晚也受到了表扬，那就是哈里森·巴恩斯 (Harrison Barnes)。约翰逊——
迈克·芬格：是的。
汤姆·奥斯本：当有人问起哈里森时，约翰逊显得非常兴奋。我今天早上查了一下，在打这轮系列赛之前，他在大约86场季后赛中场均出场27、接近28分钟。而现在他场均出场时间减少到不足10分钟。但是，昨晚他上场后起到了稳定军心的作用。就像你之前说的，迈克，他只是做好自己的工作，各司其职。他接受了自己的角色，这对于一个此前相当不稳定的替补席来说帮助极大。昨晚他上场后的表现真的非常非常稳健。
迈克·芬格：是的，他确实如此，一如既往地展现了终极职业态度，堪称职业球员的典范。你的轮换阵容中需要这样的球员，需要能带来冷静力量的家伙。而有一个人绝对不会带来冷静——呃，我们准备收尾了，但昨晚发生了一件事，当记者团在更衣室前部采访巴恩斯时，凯尔登在后面像往常一样大喊大叫。［笑声］这就是他七年来一直在做的事。这也是他今年打了90多场比赛一直在做的事。他采访时从来不安静。一位公关人员看着他说：“凯尔登，在采访哈里森的时候，你能不能稍微保持安静？”凯尔登回答说——
杰夫·麦克唐纳：让哈里森说话。
迈克·芬格：“让哈里森说话。”凯尔登说：“绝对不行，我们一整年都是这么干的。我们什么都不会改变。这就是我们，我们就是大喊大叫。”基本上他的意思是：“我就是喜欢大喊大叫，我们不会因为这是西部决赛的第四场就做出改变。”我把这话记在心里了。我们不会因为即将迎来总决赛的第五场比赛就停止在《马刺内幕》中插科打诨。文班亚马可以动真格的，但我们会继续插科打诨。下周我们还会和大家一起瞎闹。在那之前，让你的感激之情高于你的期望。照顾好彼此，保持真实。
旁白：［音乐］
由生成式人工智能翻译，译文内容可能不准确或不完整，以原文为准。
点击查看原文：Spurs, Wemby 'not messing around'
Spurs, Wemby ‘not messing around’
Columnist Mike Finger and beat reporters Jeff McDonald and Tom Orsborn discuss Victor Wembanyama’s big halftime shot and how he and the Spurs clamped down on Oklahoma City to tie the Western Conference finals 2-2.
*Suggested reading:*
Why Wembanyama wasn’t ‘messing around’ as Spurs evened series versus Thunder: _Client Challenge
Gregg Popovich had ‘choice words’ for Spurs after Game 3 loss: _Client Challenge
Spurs vs. Thunder: Game 5 Keys to Victory: _Client Challenge
3 Takeaways as Wembanyama, Spurs punch back at Thunder: _Client Challenge
How the Spurs’ De’Aaron Fox managed to corral 10 rebounds on one good leg: _https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/how-spurs-de-aaron-fox-managed-corral-10-22275155.php_
*
Here is the transcript of the podcast:
Voiceover: This episode of Spurs Insider is brought to you by the Law Office of Sean C. Brown.
Mike Finger: From a highly secure network of top-secret locations across South Texas, this is the Spurs Insider not messing around edition. I am Mike Finger, joined by our usual panel of Express-News Spurs beat writers, the rejuvenated Jeff McDonald, the resilient Tom Orsborn. And we are recording this on Memorial Day morning. No miracles were required this week, no miracles were required by the local cagers in Game 4 of the Western Conference Finals against the Oklahoma City Thunder. It was the first time they’d faced a situation where they’re trailing a series 2-1 where they really needed to win a game to get back into it. And they passed with flying colors. As, as Victor Wembanyama said, Jeff, it wasn’t anything amazing, it wasn’t anything magic, but they took care of business. And now the Western Conference Finals are a, a best of three.
Jeff McDonald: So, we’re talking about last night’s game. What a defensive just clinic the Spurs put on. 82 points. They held Oklahoma City to 82 points. I mean, that’s just, that’s just amazing. You’re going to win probably 100% of the games when you hold your NBA opponent to 82 points. My favorite stat, I don’t know, this isn’t a numbers podcast. I don’t think we’re not really big into the numbers because they’re boring usually. But my favorite stat to come out of last night’s game is the Spurs’ offensive rating was 101.6. That’s 101.6 points per 100 possession—possessions. Um, that is, that, the worst offense in the NBA this year in the regular season was the Orlando Magic. They had an offensive rating of 101.9. So the Spurs’ offense last night was worse than the worst offense in the NBA, and they won by 21 points. All because of what they did on the other end of the floor, which was just, A, make, make SGA’s life miserable, and, B, not let his little band of merry sidekicks get going, either. And when, when you do both those things, the Spurs are going to win the game.
Mike Finger: Thomas.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, big, big zero for Alex Caruso. [pause] Fewest, here’s some boring numbers: fewest points in any game for the Thunder since 19—no, 19, scratch that, since—
Mike Finger: That would have been something.
Tom Orsborn: —since 2021 when they scored 79 in a blowout loss to Memphis. Yeah, they shot 18.2% from three. You know, in the morning, De’Aaron Fox really harped on that, you know, contesting three-pointers. That’s something they were terrible at in Game 3, and they came out and, yeah, they were just, like Jeff said, it was just a clinic.
Jeff McDonald: There was another number that, uh, Fox dropped on us in the postgame last night that I, I haven’t been able to verify, but if it’s true, it’s pretty amazing. He said they, uh, they counted that they contested 91% of Oklahoma City’s shots, which is a huge number. And when you do that, again, it’s hard for any NBA team to score when you’re, when you’re in their face that much.
Mike Finger: And, one way you’re able to do that, uh, if we want to get into the strategy, Xs and Os portion of this podcast, which is just as much our forte as the numbers.
Jeff McDonald: We are. Yes.
Mike Finger: It’s, it’s, it’s why people tune in.
Jeff McDonald: What is our forte, by the way?
Mike Finger: What’s that?
Jeff McDonald: What is our forte, by the way, if it’s not numbers and it’s not Xs and Os? What, what, what would you say we do here?
Mike Finger: I, I would say we mess around. But Victor Wembanyama said that there’s no more messing around, so we’re kind of in a tough spot. We got to, we got to rebrand here.
Tom Orsborn: Ray, Ray Charles’ song, “Mess Around”.
Mike Finger: The “Mess Around”, yeah, um.
Tom Orsborn: And Planes, Trains and Automobiles.
Mike Finger: But the, the, the, the way you’re able to contest 91% of shots—and that is a De’Aaron Fox sourced number, uh, Fox stats and research, we got to attribute, um, that, that, that, where that came from.
Jeff McDonald: Well, that’s, uh, oh, I shouldn’t, yeah, I opened up a little bit of a Pandora’s box there.
Mike Finger: [laughter] Forget the Fox stats and research. How about the De’Aaron stats and research? Does that sound better? [laughter] Um, one way you’re able to do that is by guarding SGA, the NBA’s two-time MVP, sort of straight up with one guy, with your best defender, and not throwing double and triple teams at him every time he crosses the midcourt line, which was sort of the Spurs’ strategy earlier in the series. And, I understood the thought behind that. You know, you make their, the best player on the other team have to work for everything, you try to make his life miserable. But he was so proficient at picking that apart and passing the ball to the Alex Carusos and the Jared McCains and, you know, name your sidekick, that they kind of, uh, they kind of went the opposite direction in Game 4, where they just put Stephon Castle kind of on an island. Sure, he had Victor Wembanyama behind him, sure there was help when he needed it, um, but generally it was more of a straight-up defensive game plan. And Stephon Castle, man, he really stepped up. Uh, and, and, that’s, that seems like an obvious take there, he’s done that a lot of times this, this season. He often guards the other team’s best player. But there were stretches when SGA just looked miserable. Um, he did not have a lot of answers for what the Spurs were throwing at him. He’s a two-time MVP. That could change in Game 5, the, the Thunder are going to adjust the same way the Spurs adjusted. But Jeff was right, it was a defensive masterpiece in Game 4. And, um, I, I, I don’t know, it, it, it, Mitch Johnson and Mark Daigneault have both talked about the, the chess match in this series, and it’s underway, man.
Jeff McDonald: It’s underway, and you watch something like that and, not to steer this conversation into a place that you hate, but you, you wonder how Stephon Castle didn’t make either All-Defense team—All-Defensive team. He came, he came like one vote short of second team. Uh, full disclosure, I had him on my first team. Um, but, but, uh, he didn’t, he didn’t make either one. And I guess there’s just a lot of great defenders in the NBA this year, if you, uh, these days, if you look at that list of ten, it’s hard to find a guy that, you know, “Well, that guy’s not that great, he doesn’t deserve to be honored.” Um, so it’s hard to decide who you would take off. But when you watch, I have, as I did for 82 games this year plus the playoffs, um, it was hard not to see how he doesn’t show up on an All-Defensive team. He’s just been amazing with his versatility, his doggedness, his competitiveness, his physicality. [laughter] I mean, I, he’s probably the most physical player I can remember being on the Spurs. I mean, in any kind of primary, war, role, you know, not just like a, like a thug kind of guy, like a, a, an enforcer type, but like an actual player who is also about the most physical person you’ve ever seen in your life.
Mike Finger: And the Spurs once employed Kawhi Leonard.
Jeff McDonald: [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. And that’s probably the comp, and I swear to goodness, I think Steph’s just relentless physically. Part of it with Kawhi is eventually, pretty quickly, he had to become a primary scorer. So, he had to do a—I mean, it was more than, he didn’t have a Victor Wembanyama at some point. So, he had to be the scorer, and he couldn’t use all his energy and all his physicality on defense. Steph can, you can just turn him loose on people. It’s not even, and it’s not just the on-the-ball stuff. Watch him navigate every single screen that the Thunder or any opponent tries to set to get their guy free of Stephon Castle, and he’s just weaving in and out and through and around and banging, and, it, it really is a sight to behold. I mean, it wasn’t surprising there was blood on the floor [laughter] last night at the Frost Bank Center, because it’s just, it’s a knife fight down there.
Tom Orsborn: For, for historical perspective, I’d say he’s the most physical since Alvin Robertson. Alvin was the same type of player, just a bulldog and a very strong guy.
Mike Finger: Sorry for cutting you off earlier, Tom. You looked exasperated. It’s been a long series.
Tom Orsborn: No worries, Mike. I’m, I’m, I’m exasperated from, from, uh, waking up till, till I go to sleep.
Jeff McDonald: [laughter] I thought you were the serenity guy.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah.
Mike Finger: The serenity is being tested, Tom?
Tom Orsborn: Yeah.
Mike Finger: Well, I, I, I—
Tom Orsborn: Anyway.
Mike Finger: Go ahead.
Tom Orsborn: But, yeah, uh, I mean, Alvin was that way, too. He’s just a really strong guy, Steph’s the same way, just, just loaded with muscle and tenacity and just a bulldog.
Mike Finger: The offense wasn’t great last night, as Jeff pointed out. They, the three-point shooting wasn’t great. It, it, it blew the, the Oklahoma City three-point rate out of the water, but [laughter] uh, the Spurs did open again. Another game this postseason, there was, what, five, six, and four, that’s 15 postseason games this year. Almost every one of them the Spurs have come out from the beginning on a bit of a roll. Um, they, there haven’t been many where they’ve dug themselves into holes. And this time, it was Mr. Victor Wembanyama who was setting that tone from the beginning, and two nights earlier he had said that he was a bit, he needed, he expected a little bit more of himself. He needed to do more to help his teammates, he needed to do more to set the tone, and, uh, we’re repeating ourselves. He, we talk about how ridiculous that guy is over and over and over again. But he did it again in Game 4. Um, I think in the first couple of minutes, there was a three-point shot that opened the scoring, and a block of Chet Holmgren that opened the, the stopping, and, uh, puts together a, a half where he just dominates, makes a bit of a case for himself as the true MVP, and caps it off with, with a half-court shot at, at the second-quarter buzzer. That was the longest shot he’s ever made in an NBA game. There was a few weeks ago, Jeff, when we were talking up on the platform and might have even mentioned on this podcast—I can’t remember if, if it ever came up on this podcast—that the worst thing he does [laughter] on NBA floor is try those long shots: half-court, three-quarter shot, whatever. It, that, those usually make him look sort of mortal. You watch him after shootaround sometimes, and, and, he’s, he doesn’t—
Jeff McDonald: Looks like me.
Mike Finger: Yes! [laughter] Yes! And, uh, man, he’s, you watch the replay of the closing seconds of the second quarter, and Devin Vassell has the rebound, and Victor is waving his arms, “Give me the ball.” Devin wisely throws him the ball. Three dribbles to midcourt, and it’s just pure. Like, of course he made it. Of course he made it. [laughter] And, uh, what’s funny, Stephon Castle has the same reaction that everybody else in the, in all, all the Spurs fans in the arena have, just going crazy. And he jumps into Victor’s arms like a toddler. Uh, he, he was so excited, Castle.
Jeff McDonald: It’s a big toddler.
Mike Finger: It’s a big toddler. I asked Steph about it after the game, he, he said, “I think it’s, it seemed like the appropriate, seemed like the right reaction.” And, uh, man, that, that guy just, another moment met. And there, there’s more moments to meet, but if you thought, here’s the thing about the timing of the Spurs Insider podcast, um, it depends on, on the day of the week, the, the game of, of the series in which we record. If we would have recorded this two days ago, it would have been, you know, end of the world. How can the Spurs possibly come back? How can they possibly get back into this with, with Dylan Harper banged up and De’Aaron Fox banged up and, and the Thunder supposedly having, having solved them? And now, the, the desperation is in the other locker room, it seems like.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, it’s funny how, this is the third time, this is probably the third time in the series that I’ve, I’m usually not a prisoner of the moment this way, but this is the third, this is the third time [laughter] in the series where I thought, “Oh, this is over. Team A has figured out Team B, and it’s over.” And it’s, it’s not over. But, um, yeah, the Spurs punching back last night was, was really, um, a sight to behold. And going to that Victor, going back to that Victor shot, um, it’s hard to make too big a deal about three points in a 21-point win, but it, it did kind of feel like things were getting a little shaky there. The Spurs had had, had had like a, an 18-0 run, they had gotten out to a lead that I think was like 18 points there in the second quarter. And then OKC had just sort of whittled it away, and they got it back to single digits. And you’re thinking if they go into, if they go into halftime and they got back to single digits, you’re kind of playing into, “Well, this is what happens, you know, in previous games where the Spurs have this big lead and blow it, and the Thunder just thunder their way to the vic—to victory.” And I’m, I don’t think I’m making too too much of the fact that that half-court heave that pushed it back to 12, uh, kind of gave the Spurs some momentum and maybe a psychological edge when you come out there and look at the scoreboard and you’re up 12 instead of nine. I do think it makes a little difference to start the second half, and I do think it’s a thing that sort of got them, got their momentum rolling in the second half towards the outcome that, that eventually occurred.
Mike Finger: We cut Tom off again.
Jeff McDonald: Jeez, why do you keep doing that? I’m sorry.
Tom Orsborn: [laughter] No, no worries.
Jeff McDonald: Ball hog’s over here.
Tom Orsborn: And the, uh, the injury doom and gloom has shifted also to Oklahoma City. Um, the Spurs, you know, to their credit, to the credit of De’Aaron Fox and Dylan Harper, they, they weathered it pretty well. And Fox has played, in the two games he’s come back since that ankle injury, he’s played pretty well. Led the team in rebounds last night on one bad leg. Um, but now you’ve got AJ Mitchell with a calf injury, which is no laughing matter, of course, and Jaylen Williams with that hamstring injury that’s bothered him all playoffs and pretty much all season. So, yeah, the, like I said, the injury doom and gloom has shifted also.
Jeff McDonald: And what that’s done is it’s, it, it’s not just that the, the Thunder have two key players banged up, but they’re two key players that, I mean, the, the Thunder’s only really competent ball handler right now is, is SGA. So when he goes to the bench or he needs secondary help, usually that’s Mitchell or that’s Jaylen Williams to help handle the ball and create. And now, the Thunder have, have nobody. It’s, it, it’s SGA or bust. And you got to believe that’s a big reason they had their, they had 20 turnovers last, last night, OKC did. And they only did that once during the regular season, 20 turnovers. So the lack of ball handling is really going to hurt the Thunder going forward unless they can get those guys back. And it’s so interesting how that has flipped, because coming out of, uh, whatever game that was when all the Spurs guys got hurt, three or, or, uh, or, two, um, it was like, who, what are the, the Spurs lost their two, two, you know, two of their three top ball handlers. And what are they going to do for ball handling? And I, I, I think Tom is right. You do have to give Harper and Fox credit just for being out there, even though they know they’re clear, neither one of those guys is anywhere close to 100%. You can see it, you can, you can, you can see it in their play, in the way they move. I, I watched Fox come out of the, uh, come into the locker room to get dressed last night, and he was walking like, uh, you know, he’s 28, I think, uh, he was walking like a 68-year-old. Like, it was like, how did this guy just play in an NBA playoff game? Um, and so for those guys just to get up and be out there just to be available to handle the ball, if they do nothing else, if they don’t score points, if they miss shots, if they, uh, you know, if they don’t get ten rebounds like Fox got last night, but if they’re just there to handle the ball and, and to, um, be available for that, that’s a huge, huge boon.
Mike Finger: There was the classic, um, press conference kind of softball to De’Aaron last night of, uh, “Does, does a win make your ankle feel better?” [laughter] He, he said, “No.” [laughter] “It does not, it, it still hurts.” Um, yeah. And, uh, you, you can just tell. Like, watching Dylan Harper play, he was a revelation in, in the first couple of games, uh, this whole postseason. And there are still, like, he had some highlight-reel-type drives last night, but not as many of them. And there’s still those moments when you think he’s going to finish like Manu, which he’d been doing for a while, and then he kind of turns that into a, a pull-up or a pass or what have you. And it’s just something they’re going to have to deal with for the foreseeable future. Uh, I don’t think they expect De’Aaron Fox’s ankle to heal before the end of the playoffs. But to have those guys out there, exactly what Jeff said, contributing as opposed to watching, like J-Dub and AJ Mitchell, that’s a huge edge for the Spurs. Another huge edge for the Spurs, which is just another like “give him his flowers” type moment on the podcast, uh, something that Mitch Johnson said last night that I found particularly noteworthy was that there’s a player on the Spurs’ roster who might be their most consistent performer playoffs, year-round, in terms of, I think Mitch pointed out, the least gap between the ceiling and the floor of his performance every night. And that is one Devin Vassell. Um, you know what you’re going to get from him every night. It’s, it, it’s at both ends of the floor. Um, and, he just plugs away. He’s never throwing 30 points into the, into the stat sheet, um, but he’s never just a, a zero. And, Tom, you’ve written about him a lot this postseason. That, that was another, um, just classic Vassell performance last night, full of little spurts where, um, he, he does it at both ends, he, he blocks a shot, he grabs a rebound, he finishes with the lob to Victor at the other end. And, um, having guys like that on your team is how you win the Western Conference and go to the NBA Finals.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah, that, that sequence in the first quarter, they go up 21-8 on this, on this sequence. He, he blocks Jared McCain on a reverse layup, gets the rebound, takes the ball downcourt, feeds Victor for the lob. I mean, that, to me, that encapsulated what he’s been about throughout the playoffs, just, uh, great two-way. And you know, I noted last night that, uh, Mitch Johnson deserves a lot of credit for this. One of the, one of his pet projects, and he’s been, you know, um, Devin’s development coach throughout, but after he became head coach, uh, acting head coach, um, he, he sat down with Devin and said, “You need to step it up on both ends.” And that’s what we’re seeing. He kind of laid the groundwork for what we’re seeing now.
Jeff McDonald: And before the season, I think it’s Devin told me that, uh, Sean Sweeney sat him down and showed him, uh, video of, of Devin at Florida State back in college and the way he was fly—flying away, flying around on defense and said, “That’s the guy you need to be. Like, where’d that guy go? Like, let’s bring that guy back.” And that’s, that’s what we’re seeing from him. I mean, to, to me, the, the shots he makes, Vassell makes, are, are almost gravy now. Just watch him fly around on defense and make, make the plays. I mean, he’s part of what makes this defense work. He’s a huge part of the reason OKC managed a measly 82 points last night. It seems like every game now, um, you know, you, it’s, it screams with the blocks, like every game now he’s, Devin’s got a block of somebody at the rim that, that, um, jumps off the screen at you. And, but it’s just the, he’s doing it all on both ends. And that’s the play, I, I think, like if you compare it to what his role, what a player’s role is, like he’s probably been as good as anybody in, in, on any team in the NBA playoffs. Like he’s not a star, he’s not going to score you 30 like you said, but if you’ve, if you’re looking at who fills their role, uh, closest to what, what you need, night in and night out, I think he’s been as good as anybody in the playoffs this year.
Mike Finger: Uh, Mark Daigneault talked about this pregame, um, might have been Game 3, about, um, the, and, and Mitch might have mentioned it too, that, Mitch and, and Mark kind of remind me a lot of each other.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Finger: With the way they kind of think about the game and talk about the game. And I might be conflating one interview with the other, but and, and come to think of it, it might have been more Mitch. But the, the idea of a, a huge part of coaching is to do exactly what Jeff just said. It, it, it’s to sit down with every player on your roster and clearly define what you want from that player. Um, what it looks like. What the, what that role looks like, what the parameters of, of that, that role are, so the player knows what you expect of him. And it’s not as simple as you tell every guy, “We want you to play hard and rebound and play defense and, uh, and move the ball,” all that kind of stuff. That’s like too broad and too, I mean, that, like, like, that doesn’t work. You have to be specific with, “This is what Devin Vassell looks like when he is the optimal, um, uh, you know, starting wing for the San Antonio Spurs.” And I think that Mitch did that, Sean Sweeney did that, the Spurs did that as an organization. And they did that with Julian Champagnie, and they did that with Luke Kornet, and they did that with, at, at some point this season with Harrison Barnes, when they moved him out of the starting lineup. And you see that kind of manifest itself in a series like this, where you look up and down that roster and you see guys come onto the floor and they know exactly what is expected of them. And they’re not all trying to be Victor Wembanyama, they’re trying to be the best at what their role is. And, again, that’s, that’s how you knock off the defending champs.
Tom Orsborn: Stay in your lane. Bill, Bill Belichick, “Do your job.” And Mike, Mike Finger is much like that as podcast host, he’s defined our roles.
Mike Finger: That seemed a little sarcastic, Tom.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah. Well, our, our roles are to take his crap. So, it’s [laughter] pretty well-defined.
Mike Finger: Well, you, you all do a good job of it.
Jeff McDonald: And we’ve had 30 years of practice.
Tom Orsborn: That’s, that’s, uh, odd. That’s depressing.
Jeff McDonald: I know. [laughter] I know. Knowing this man for 30 years is depressing. That’s correct.
Tom Orsborn: What, what we’ve weathered, Jeff, what we’ve weathered.
Mike Finger: Both of you in different contexts knew this grizzled old man as a teenager. That’s, that’s something. Um, yeah. You, you’ve just thrown me off my game. [laughter] It’s like, uh, it’s like, uh, you know. S—are we messing around? Victor, Victor said last night he’s not messing around anymore. We’re back to messing around.
Jeff McDonald: We’re back to messing around, yeah.
Mike Finger: It is a best of three. And, and Jeff, this is now a numbers podcast, it’s a, it’s an Xs and Os strategic podcast, [laughter] it’s a, it’s a basketball breakdown podcast. People can go, it’s a coaching clinic. People need to know in this best of three, keys, San Antonio Express-News, expressnews.com, keys to victory for Game 5 in Oklahoma City. Give us a little sneak peek, if you will, of the keys to victory.
Jeff McDonald: A sneak peek? How would you, how would you spell that?
Mike Finger: [laughter] Oh, it can be spelled any number of ways. [laughter] Last, my editor pro tem. Go ahead.
Jeff McDonald: Um, I mean, some of it is just repeat what you did defensively in, in this, this last game. Like that, I th—I think they might have sort of uncovered, uh, you know, an approach that works. And I guess you can expect Oklahoma City to try to find a way to adjust to that, to try to get Stephon, uh, you know, Shai some space from Steph a little bit. But it really is going to come down to, can, can the Thunder’s role players be what they were in Games 2 and three when they were just all-world. I mean, Alex Caruso, honest to goodness, had the best three-game scoring stretch of his entire gosh-darn career to start this, this series, and then was scoreless in Game 4. Like, if those guys are not, if you keep those guys under wraps, you have a good, good chance to win. And then, I think it’s also just, Victor’s got to be that, what we saw last night. He’s got to be that on both ends, again. He’s got to be the guy that sets the tone for everybody from, from, from the jump. If, if he’s dominating, if he’s, if he’s assertive on offense and he’s dominating defensively the way he did to start Game 4, the Spurs are off to a good start there. And, and a third one, a third key to victory, which I will come up with later.
Mike Finger: As good as the defense was, as much as they hand the three-point shooting, uh, De’Aaron Fox, De’Aaron’s stats and research, 91% contested. That still doesn’t lead to the percentage that the Thunder shot. Is that, does anybody have it in front of me? It was 4 of 30 at one point, I think it might have ended up almost as bad. The Thunder are going to make more of those shots, contested or not, and, and, especially at home. So, you know, the, the good news for the Spurs is they had a 20-point buffer, you know, you can give up a few more and, and things are okay. But, um, uh—
Jeff McDonald: Hopefully, you don’t have the worst offense in the NBA, too, though. Like, you can, you can raise your ceiling on offense.
Mike Finger: Or floor. I always get that confused, but whatever.
Tom Orsborn: A lot of buffer is said, a lot of buffers, right, Mike?
Jeff McDonald: A lot of buffers.
Mike Finger: Uh, I want to find out what’s going on here. Somebody needs to find out what’s going on. We’re just doing Godfather stuff now. Um, anything, what, what did we miss? We talked about the blood, we talked about messing around. How about that blood? How, how about that cleanup? That was something else.
Tom Orsborn: Yeah. [laughter] It was, it was all over the gosh-darn place.
Jeff McDonald: Both ends of the court, on the floor, all over Keldon, somehow on the backboard. Like, it got on the back—got on the glass. Like, the, they literally had to clean the glass.
Tom Orsborn: Keldon looked like, uh, another mafia reference, he looked like Silvio Dante, Mike, [laughter] when, when the guy next to him got whacked in the Italian restaurant and the blood just splattered all over him. That’s what Keldon kind of looked like, his back.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah. I believe the blood came from Chet Holmgren, is that what we’ve deduced?
Mike Finger: From his finger, yeah.
Jeff McDonald: His finger, yeah. We saw them work on his finger.
Tom Orsborn: Um, yeah. Like, like Castle said after the game, he said he’s not surprised that the, the, this game, this series has resulted in bloodshed. I’m, I’m paraphrasing a little bit, but that’s, that’s, that was his attitude. It was a bloody mess.
Mike Finger: What happens is, have either of you ever cut your finger? I know you want to cut a finger off often. I know you dream about cutting a, a particular finger.
Jeff McDonald: Yes.
Tom Orsborn: Yes.
Mike Finger: But as, as, as a youngster, I once cut the tip off of my finger with a, with a knife cutting an apple. And what, what that does is the end of it, people, people can’t see on the audio podcast, but when you cut off the, when you cut the end of it, it just kind of spurts. I think that was what was happening to Chet. I, I suspect that’s what happened to Chet, is it just, like the end got cut, cut in a way where, where the blood was spurting everywhere. And then you had this cleanup that lasted a good while. That was quite entertaining. We needed a respite. We needed a rest. We all need a rest to kind of catch our breath. Express-News, if I’m correctly, had an editor, editor of the paper named Jim Moss, who, uh, lost a digit in some type of farm work. Jim, Jim, did a lot of, uh, farming, ranching-type work.
Tom Orsborn: Uh-huh. Yeah.
Mike Finger: That happens, that happens on farms. I’ve seen it happen. Like, like, like in a, uh, uh, baler, whatever.
Tom Orsborn: Mmhmm.
Mike Finger: And, and, that Jim Moss was not the first Express-News, uh, editor to want to lose a digit. [laughter] I think there, there have been others that, [laughter] that have—
Jeff McDonald: I’d like to, I’d like to, I’d like to lose a digit from this podcast.
Mike Finger: Well, let’s just see what happens to your stats when your usage rate goes up. Let’s just see what happens [laughter] when the distributor, uh, takes a week off when he, when he, when he has to, when he has to, when he has to go to the sidelines. Let’s just see [laughter] like you, you think of your high percentage, your shot percentage, uh, your, your PER. Let’s, let’s, let’s see what happens when, when the defenses are focused on you.
Jeff McDonald: To, to throw back to something else I wrote this week, the, the, the, distributor of this podcast reminds you a little of Chris Paul. You know, it, it works for, it works for a while, it’s going well for a while, but he just wears on everyone eventually. [laughter] And you just want, you just want, have to get rid of him.
Mike Finger: Just, we, we have a couple minutes before we need to go and catch planes and go back to lovely Oklahoma City. Uh, you, you had a nice, Jeff McDonald had a nice, um, kind of, uh, uh, review of the Chris Paul era for both of these Western Conference Finals teams. And, and Mark Daigneault told you a good story, and Mitch Johnson gave you some good tidbits. It, the imprints of that little, little sucker, that little so-and-so are still on these teams, aren’t they?
Jeff McDonald: Some of them, the little dictator.
Mike Finger: Yeah.
Jeff McDonald: Yeah, yeah, you’re right. I mean, um, it’s been a while since Chris has been in OKC, but the real imprint there was, he was there for one year when, uh, the, the same year a fellow named Shai Gilgeous-Alexander arrived in a trade from the Clippers. So he kind of took that guy under his wing and helped build the monster that you see before you today, the two-time MVP. And then we were all around last year to see Chris Paul’s influence on, on that locker room and guys like Stephon Castle and Victor Wembanyama, and even some of the, uh, older young vets, if that’s not an oxymoron, in like, uh, Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson, just teaching them how to win, how to prepare, how to watch film, um, how to take care of your body, all that stuff. And, and I think anybody in the, in that room with the Spurs would tell you, I mean, it, it, it’s probably a, a stretch to say the Spurs would not be in the Western Conference Finals were it not for one year with Chris Paul, but it certainly didn’t, didn’t hurt. Like he, he helped build the foundation for what they have going forward. And if and when these guys are NBA champions again, he will have had, uh, a bit to do with it.
Mike Finger: Yep. Tom.
Tom Orsborn: Uh, another guy, uh, just real quick, another guy who got praise last night, uh, Harrison Barnes. Mitch—
Mike Finger: Yes.
Tom Orsborn: Mitch was thrilled when someone asked him about Harrison. And I looked it up, uh, this morning, he came into this, uh, series averaging 27, nearly 28, uh, minutes a game over like 86 playoff games. He’s down to, you know, less than ten, um. But, you know, he came in last night, he was a steadying influence. And as you said earlier, Mike, just did his job, stayed in his lane, you know, he, he’s, he’s accepted his role, and that’s, that’s helped out, too, on a bench that’s been pretty unsteady. He came in last night and was pretty, pretty darn steady.
Mike Finger: Yeah, he was, um, and just the ultimate professional, consummate pro, as usual. Uh, you need guys like that in your rotation, just guys who can provide some kind of calm. One guy who doesn’t provide calm—uh, we’ll, we’re wrapping up, but there was, uh, when, when the group was talking to Harrison Barnes last night at the front of the locker room, you had your typical Keldon Johnson in the back just screaming. And [laughter] that’s, that’s what he’s done for seven years. That’s what he’s done for 90-whatever games this year. Like, he does not hold it down for the interviews. And, one of the, one of the PR staffer’s kind of looked at him and said, “Keldon, can you, uh, can you hold it down during Harrison’s interview?” And Keldon said—
Jeff McDonald: Let Harrison talk.
Mike Finger: “Let Harrison talk.” And Keldon said, “Absolutely not, we’ve been doing this all year. We’re not changing a thing. This is who we are. We, we, I scream.” Basically, his point was, “I scream, and we’re not going to change it just because it’s Game 4 of the Western Conference Finals.” And, I took that to heart. We’re not going to stop messing around on the Spurs Insider just because we’re heading into Game 5 of the NBA Finals. Victor Wembanyama can stop messing around, we’re going to continue to mess around. We will mess around with all of you again next week. Until then, keep your expect—keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. Take care of each other, and keep it real.
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