By Lee Dresie | Pounding The Rock (PtR), 2025-09-27 02:38:22
由生成式人工智能翻译，译文内容可能不准确或不完整，以原文为准。
我近来一直在思考何为王朝，以及王朝如何落幕。而起因却与马刺、甚至与篮球都无关，而是源于橄榄球。但请听我慢慢道来——我们最终会聊回NBA和马刺的。
事实上，当文章写到最后，话题已不仅仅是关于王朝如何终结。不知不觉间，它演变成了我们最初该如何定义王朝。有时候，提笔写一件事，最终却落笔于另一件事，这过程也颇为有趣。
我的女婿卡姆 (Cam) 来自堪萨斯城，并对他的家乡深感自豪。很自然地，卡姆是堪萨斯城酋长队的铁杆球迷。当他在疫情期间和我们住在一起时，观看并为酋长队加油成了一家人的固定节目。这个时机恰到好处，因为酋长队在那年二月刚刚赢得了他们的第一座超级碗。我们和卡姆一起见证了酋长队在2020年超级碗中以31-20击败49人队。在他们充满活力的年轻四分卫帕特里克·马霍姆斯 (Patrick Mahomes) 和主教练安迪·里德 (Andy Reid) 的带领下，酋长队在2021、2022、2024和2025年都闯入了超级碗，并两度夺魁。
所有王朝终将落幕，而我们或许正在见证酋长队辉煌的终点。他们上赛季场均仅得22.6分，比巅峰时期少了整整一次达阵的得分。是的，他们在常规赛取得了15胜2负的战绩，但整个赛季下来，他们仅比对手多得了59分，场均净胜分刚过4分。随后，酋长队在超级碗中惨败给老鹰队，并以0胜2负开启了本赛季（场均得分不到20分）。上周日他们总算赢了一场，但面对羸弱不堪的纽约巨人队也只得到22分。酋长队也许能扭转颓势，尽管我和卡姆都会乐见其成，而且这确实可能发生，但我认为我们不会在本赛季的超级碗中看到他们的身影。如果我没说错，那可能就是马霍姆斯/里德王朝的终结。
NFL的上一个王朝是新英格兰爱国者队，由四分卫汤姆·布雷迪 (Tom Brady) 和主教练比尔·贝利切克 (Bill Belichick) 共同缔造。在这对组合的带领下，爱国者队赢下了数枚冠军戒指。我认为将爱国者王朝称为布雷迪/贝利切克王朝是公允的，而这个王朝的终结，是在爱国者队老板选择留下贝利切克、而放走了布雷迪之后（此后布雷迪在坦帕湾又赢得了一枚戒指）。
与橄榄球和篮球不同，在棒球运动中，拥有一名伟大球员的影响力远不及前两者——比如，看看迈克·特劳特 (Mike Trout) 和洛杉矶天使队就知道了。虽然棒球主教练依然重要，但其影响力可能也不如一位伟大的橄榄球或篮球教练。此外，即便是最顶尖的棒球队也会输掉大约40%的比赛，而MLB（美国职业棒球大联盟）从三局两胜制开始的季后赛赛制更是加剧了这一问题。或许这些原因解释了为何本世纪以来棒球界再未出现过卫冕世界大赛冠军的球队。然而，我的道奇队已经连续13年（包括本赛季）闯入季后赛，其中12次赢得西区冠军，并两次夺得世界大赛冠军。在这13年里，他们一直拥有克莱顿·克肖 (Clayton Kershaw) 和主教练戴夫·罗伯茨 (Dave Roberts)——我们能称之为克肖/罗伯茨准王朝吗？
如果我们要讨论NBA与ABA合并后的王朝，我们得从80年代相互抗衡的两大王朝说起：湖人队和凯尔特人队。湖人队赢得了5座总冠军，凯尔特人队则有3座。然而，这两个王朝都以黯然收场。湖人队的最后一次NBA总决赛之旅，是在1989年6月与活塞队的对决中，当时他们的两位首发后卫，“魔术师”约翰逊 (Magic Johnson) 和拜伦·斯科特 (Bryon Scott) 都在总决赛中撕裂了腿筋，最终这支两届卫冕冠军不敌对手。
凯尔特人队的健康问题则没有那么突如其来，他们的三巨头——拉里·伯德 (Larry Bird)、凯文·麦克海尔 (Kevin McHale) 和罗伯特·帕里什 (Robert Parish)——只是被岁月磨损了。尤其是伯德，他的背伤严重到导致他在不打球时只能躺在场边。凯尔特人队在那个时代的最后一座总冠军是在1986年。但在王朝落幕之前，两支球队的核心阵容都保持了稳定。我们可以将湖人的辉煌称为魔术师/贾巴尔/莱利王朝，而凯尔特人则由他们自己的三巨头（都是大个子球员）所定义——伯德/麦克海尔/帕里什王朝。
当然，90年代由公牛队的两个三连冠所统治，而这期间被迈克尔·乔丹 (Michael Jordan) “自愿”退役两年去阿拉巴马州伯明翰打AA级棒球的时期所隔开。由于这两个时期的公牛队拥有完全不同的配角阵容，我们可以将之统称为乔丹/皮蓬/杰克逊王朝——在这三人作为球队门面的时期，他们共夺得六枚戒指。正如我们从《最后之舞》中所了解到的，这个王朝的终结，本质上是因为球员和管理层彼此之间已经到了忍耐的极限。
本世纪的头一个十年，由湖人队的两个独立的迷你王朝开启和终结；第一个是2000年至2002年的湖人三连冠——即“沙克/科比”时代，他们在菲尔·杰克逊 (Phil Jackson) 加盟担任教练后终于功成名就。传统观点认为，他们没能赢得更多冠军是因为沙克和科比无法和睦相处，但我并不同意。我认为那个迷你王朝的终结，是因为湖人队失去了像罗伯特·霍里 (Robert Horry) 这样的关键球员。他们试图用年迈的球星卡尔·马龙 (Karl Malone) 和加里·佩顿 (Gary Payton) 来填补空缺，但这次尝试以失败告终——马龙在总决赛中膝盖受伤，而佩顿则始终无法融入球队体系。
湖人的第二个迷你王朝则在2009年和2010年两度夺冠，此时保罗·加索尔 (Pau Gasol) 替代了沙克的位置。湖人队在2010年总决赛抢七大战中，从落后15分的困境中逆转，惊险击败凯尔特人队。接下来的赛季，他们在第二轮被达拉斯独行侠队横扫，湖人队在休赛期交易了拉马尔·奥多姆 (Lamar Odom)，直到2020年的“气泡园区”季后赛，他们才重返总决赛，而在这期间的2010年代中期，球队彻底崩盘。那么该如何称呼湖人队这个一分为二的王朝呢？唯一不变的只有科比和教练菲尔·杰克逊，所以或许可以叫作科比/杰克逊王朝。
下一个（或许也是最后一个）NBA王朝是金州勇士队，他们分别在2015、2017、2018和2022年夺得总冠军。他们本可能也本应该在2016年夺冠，但德雷蒙德·格林 (Draymond Green) 的争议举动扭转了总决赛的走势。因为“Pounding the Rock”是一个面向家庭的平台，我们不会详述格林的越界行为，只能说这事关“男人的要害”。在2019年因伤病脱轨，以及随后凯文·杜兰特 (Kevin Durant) 决定离开他所效力过的最强球队之后，勇士王朝给人的感觉似乎已经结束了。当然，勇士队在2022年卷土重来，击败了远比他们年轻的凯尔特人队，最后一次登顶。在增添了“季后赛吉米·巴特勒”之后，勇士队还能再夺一冠吗？这并非不可能，但岁月终究是难以战胜的，斯蒂芬·库里 (Steph Curry) 在去年季后赛输给森林狼的比赛中受伤就是明证。无论如何，如果我们遵循本文的命名惯例，勇士王朝应该被称为库里/科尔王朝。
我是否遗漏了任何合并后的NBA王朝？
是的，没错，我确实漏了。在湖人队开启和终结的那个十年之间，圣安东尼奥马刺队在1999年首次夺冠后，又在2003、2005和2007年赢得了那些“跳跃式”的冠军。每位读到这里的读者也都知道，马刺队在2014年的“救赎之战”总决赛中完成了他们的五冠伟业。尽管马刺队从未实现卫冕，在这些年份中跳跃穿梭，但他们长达二十年、跨越两个时代的辉煌历程，以及连续取得50+胜场的纪录，都清楚地表明他们是一个王朝。事实上，在2014年以“美丽篮球”达到巅峰之后，马刺队在接下来的三个赛季又分别取得了55、67和61场胜利，但都未能重返总决赛。
贯穿始终的核心是伟大的蒂姆·邓肯 (Tim Duncan) 和教练格雷格·波波维奇 (Gregg Popovich)。这两位传奇人物在这些年里，根据邓肯身边球员的不同，采用截然不同的打法，并成功地赢得了胜利。当然，这其中也包括了我的挚爱马努·吉诺比利 (Manu Ginobili) 和那位总是说“Oui”的法国人托尼·帕克 (Tony Parker)。但这依然是邓肯/波波维奇王朝，很大程度上是因为他们两人都乐于改变，以适应每支球队的优势和劣势。正如我之前在这里讨论过的，波波维奇愿意根据球员调整风格的意愿，可能源于他在NCAA第三级别联赛的执教经历。那个王朝的终结，是在蒂米、马努和托尼优雅地、不可避免地老去之后，但他们永远是马刺人。（又有谁还记得，帕克其实在夏洛特度过了他最后一个赛季？）
虽然梳理这一切是个很有趣的过程，但我得出的结论是，我并不喜欢自己提出的这个想法——用顶级球员，或者顶级球员加教练的名字来定义每一个王朝。这个惯例无法体现出所有总冠军都是团队冠军的本质。在任何体育项目中，顶级球员和他们的教练若没有团队中每个人的贡献，都无法赢得胜利。事实上，我之前就写过，我非常不喜欢将公牛王朝时期的球员们称为迈克尔的“配角阵容”。我更喜欢马刺队称呼其他球员的方式：“队友”，正如我十年前所讨论的。
没有拜伦·斯科特和迈克尔·库珀 (Michael Cooper)，80年代的湖人队赢不了；没有约翰·帕克森 (John Paxson) 或丹尼斯·罗德曼 (Dennis Rodman)，90年代的公牛队也赢不了；没有里克·福克斯 (Rick Fox) 或罗伯特·霍里，2000年代的湖人队同样赢不了；而马刺王朝的辉煌，也离不开马里奥·埃利 (Mario Elie)、帕蒂·米尔斯 (Patty Mills)、鲍里斯·迪奥 (Boris Diaw) 以及其他许多人。这些“其他人”也包括像迈克·布登霍尔泽 (Mike Budenholzer) 这样的助理教练和投篮教练奇普·恩格尔兰 (Chip Engelland)。有些王朝的终结，正是因为这些队友的离开，即便核心球星仍在阵中。
所以，让我们还是继续用球队的名字来称呼那些王朝吧，因为这终究是团队运动。大家同意吗？
点击查看原文：Random thoughts on how to define dynasties
Random thoughts on how to define dynasties
I have been thinking about dynasties, and how they end. The reason has nothing to do with the Spurs, or even basketball. It has to do with football. But hang with me — we will get back to the NBA, and the Spurs.
Indeed, by the time we get to the end, this won’t just be about how dynasties end. Instead, it morphed into how we define dynasties in the first place. Funny how writing about one thing sometimes leads to writing about something else.
My son-in-law Cam is from Kansas City and very proud of his birthplace. Naturally, Cam is a big Kansas City Chiefs fan. When he stayed with us during the pandemic, watching and rooting for the Chiefs became a family event. The timing was good because the Chiefs had just won their first Super Bowl that February. We watched with Cam when the Chiefs beat the 49ers 31-20 in the 2020 Super Bowl. Led by their dynamic young quarterback Patrick Mahomes and coached by Andy Reid, the Chiefs made the Super Bowl in 2021, 2022, 2024 and 2025, winning twice.
All dynasties end, and we might be at the end of the Chiefs’ run. They averaged only 22.6 per game last season, about a full touchdown less than at their peak. Yes, they went 15-2 in the regular season, but for the season, they outscored their opponents by only 59 points, barely 4 points per game. The Chiefs then got crushed by the Eagles in the Super Bowl and started this season 0-2, (averaging less than 20 points per game). They finally won last Sunday but scored only 22 against a woefully bad New York Giants team. The Chiefs may turn it around, but even though Cam and I would enjoy it, and it might just happen, I don’t think we will see KC in this season’s Super Bowl. If I am right, that could be the end of the Mahomes/Reid Dynasty.
The previous NFL dynasty was the New England Patriots, quarterbacked by Tom Brady, coached by Bill Belichick. Led by that duo, the Pats won a bunch of rings. I think it is fair to call the Pats’ dynasty the Brady/Belichick Dynasty that only ended when the Pats’ owner chose to keep Belichick and let Brady walk (after which Brady won another ring in Tampa Bay).
Unlike football and basketball, having a great player in baseball does not have nearly the same impact — see, for instance, Mike Trout and the Los Angeles Angels. While still important, the baseball manager also probably has less impact than a great football or basketball coach. Further, even the best baseball teams lose about 40% of their games, a problem exacerbated by MLB’s playoff system which starts with a three-game series. Perhaps those reasons explain why baseball has not had a repeat World Series champion this century. However, my Dodgers have made the playoffs (including this season) 13 straight years, winning the West 12 of those years, and winning the World Series twice. They also had Clayton Kershaw and manager Dave Roberts for all 13 years — can we call it the Kershaw/Roberts Semi-Dynasty?
If we talk about NBA dynasties after the merger with the ABA, we start with the dueling 1980’s dynasties: the Lakers and the Celtics. The Lakers won 5 crowns, the Celtics won 3. Both dynasties ended with a whimper. The Lakers last NBA Finals ended with the two-time defending champs losing to the Pistons after both starting guards, Magic Johnson and Bryon Scott, tore their hamstrings in the Finals against the Pistons in June 1989.
The Celtics’ health issues weren’t as sudden, as their Big Three of Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish just wore down – Bird in particular with back issues that left him laying down on the sideline when not playing. The last of the Celtics’ championships in that era was in 1986. But before the dynasties ended, both were keyed by the same personnel. We can call the Lakers’ run the Magic/Kareem/Riley Dynasty with the Celtics defined by their own Big Three (all big players) – the Bird/McHale/Parish Dynasty.
Of course, the 1990s were dominated by the two three-peats by the Bulls, separated by the two years Michael Jordan “voluntarily” took two years off to pursue Double A baseball in Birmingham, Alabama. Because the two iterations of the team had completely different supporting casts, we can just refer to the Bulls as the Jordan/Pippen/Jackson Dynasty – six rings while those three were the faces of the franchise. As we all know from watching The Last Dance, this dynasty essentially ended when the players and management decided they had enough of each other.
The first decade of this century was bookended by the Lakers’ two separate mini-dynasties; The first was the Laker three-peat from 2000 through 2002 – the Shaq/Kobe years, who finally won when they added Phil Jackson as coach. Conventional wisdom says that they didn’t win more because Shaq and Kobe couldn’t get along, but I disagree. I believe that the mini-dynasty ended because the Lakers lost key players such as Robert Horry. The attempt to replace them with aging stars Karl Malone and Gary Payton failed when Malone hurt his knee in the Finals, and Payton just never fit in.
The second Laker mini-dynasty resulted in championships in 2009 and 2010, with Pau Gasol replacing Shaq. The Lakers barely beat the Celtics in 2010, coming back from 15 down in Game Seven. The next season, they were swept in the second round by the Dallas Mavericks, the Lakers traded Lamar Odom in the off-season, and they did not return to the Finals until the Bubble Playoffs in 2020, cratering out in the mid 2010s. How to refer to the Lakers bifurcated dynasty? The only constants were Kobe and coach Phil Jackson, so perhaps the Kobe/Jackson Dynasty.
The next (and perhaps last) NBA dynasty was the Golden State Warriors, who won it all in 2015, 2017, 2018 and 2022. They also could have and should have won in 2016, but Draymond Green’s antics turned the Finals around. Because Pounding the Rock is a family show, we won’t detail Draymond’s transgression other than to say it involves balls. The Warriors’ dynasty felt like it was over after injuries derailed them in 2019, followed by Kevin Durant’s decision to leave the best team he ever played on. Of course, the Warriors came back to win it all one last time in 2022, upsetting the much younger Celtics. Can the Ws win another crown after adding Playoff Jimmy Butler? It is possible, but age remains largely undefeated, as evidenced by Steph Curry’s injury in last year’s playoff loss to the the Timberwolves. In any event, if we are going to assign this post’s naming convention, the Warriors’ dynasty would be called the Curry/Kerr Dynasty.
Have I failed to include any post-merger NBA dynasties?
Yes, yes I have. Between the bookend Laker championships. the San Antonio Spurs won the grasshopper championships in 2003 and 2005 and 2007, after winning their first crown in 1999. Everyone reading this also knows that the Spurs completed their handful of five rings in the Redemption Finals in 2014. While the Spurs hopscotched across the years by never winning back-to-back, their twenty year run over two decades of 50 plus wins clearly makes them a dynasty. Indeed, after the pinnacle of hoops with the Beautiful Game Spurs in 2014, the Spurs then won 55, 67 and 61 games the next three seasons, but didn’t make it back to the Finals in any of those seasons.
The constants throughout were the Great Tim Duncan and coach Gregg Popovich. Those two icons managed to win during all those years while playing wildly different styles depending on the players around Duncan. Of course, that included My Man Manu Ginobili and the Oui Frenchman Tony Parker. But it was still the Duncan/Popovich Dynasty, largely because both of them were receptive to changing to accommodate each team’s strengths and weaknesses. As I have discussed here previously, Pop’s willingness to change styles to fit his players likely grew out of his experience coaching in college at the Division III level. That dynasty ended when Timmy, Manu and Tony aged out, gracefully, inevitably, but forever Spurs. (Who even remembers that Parker actually spent his last season with Charlotte?)
While this has been a fascinating exercise to work through, I have concluded that I don’t like my own idea of defining dynasties by naming each dynasty with the top players, or the top players and the coach. That convention would fail to recognize that all championships are team championships. The top players and their coaches in any sport could not have won without everyone on the team contributing. Indeed, I have written before how much I dislike referring to players on the Bulls dynasty teams as Michael’s “supporting cast”. I much prefer how the Spurs referred to the other players: “Teammates”, as I discussed ten years ago.
The 1980s Lakers would not have won without Byron Scott and Michael Cooper, the 1990s Bulls would not have won without John Paxson or Dennis Rodman, the 2000s Lakers would not have won without Rick Fox or Robert Horry, and the Spurs dynasty would not have happened without Mario Elie, Patty Mills, Boris Diaw and many others. The “others” also include assistant coaches such as Mike Budenholzer and shooting coach Chip Engelland. Some of those dynasties died when those teammates moved on even if the stars remained.
So let’s continue to refer to those dynasties by using the names of the teams, because these are team sports. Everyone OK with that?
By Lee Dresie, via Pounding The Rock