By Jeje Gomez, Marilyn Dubinski, Mark Barrington, Jacob Douglas, Bill Huan, Devon Birdsong | Pounding The Rock (PtR), 2025-06-10 22:41:04
由生成式人工智能翻译，译文内容可能不准确或不完整，以原文为准。
以巨星驱动进攻还是强调团队配合？专注于引进顶级天赋还是挖掘被低估的潜力股？总决赛正在表明，这两种建队理念都能奏效。
如果你必须围绕一名球员建队，你会选择更偏向持球大核的谢伊·吉尔杰斯-亚历山大 (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander)，还是更注重团队的泰瑞斯·哈利伯顿 (Tyrese Haliburton)？
Marilyn Dubinski： 我内心那个热爱团队篮球的球迷想说哈利伯顿，但他可能永远无法完全达到MVP级别，而亚历山大在这方面已经证明了自己是MVP，并且未来可能还会赢得更多。同时，说亚历山大不注重团队也不准确，因为他本赛季场均送出了生涯新高的6.4次助攻。哈利伯顿是那种手感能瞬间火热的球员，而且在这次季后赛中，他的关键时刻基因确实彻底爆发了，但我需要看到他有更MVP级别的常规赛表现，以及一次比充满逆转魔术更具统治力的季后赛之旅，我才会选择他。归根结底，你希望围绕最好的球员来建队，而目前看来，那就是亚历山大。
Mark Barrington： 他们都是伟大的球员，但你必须选择吉尔杰斯-亚历山大。他有能力带领球队取胜，并且在他上场的整个时间里都能保持统治力，即使其他球员没有发挥出最高水平。哈利伯顿更像是一名辅助型球员，有时会隐形，而且他有时会有一些比赛发挥不出那么大的影响力。除了泰瑞斯，我不想让任何人来投绝杀球或带领球队在第四节逆转，但亚历山大在前三节的影响力更大。他们中的任何一个都比马刺队目前任何球员的终结能力要强，两支球队都可以放心地让他们的球星在关键时刻处理球。
Jacob Douglas： 我还是选MVP。亚历山大是现代篮球时代首位我真正认为能凭借他在防守端的努力以及在进攻端融入体系的意愿来赢得总冠军的“进攻核心”型后卫。他将卢卡·东契奇 (Luka Doncic) 或詹姆斯·哈登 (James Harden) 那样的进攻爆发力，与哈利伯顿所展现的那种无私结合在一起。哈利伯顿有时会隐形，因为他不是那种足够果断的球星。我认为这在第二场比赛中给步行者队造成了巨大伤害。
Bill Huan： 如果我们只在这两名球员之间做选择，不选亚历山大简直是疯了。建队时应将打法风格考虑在内，但这只适用于讨论天赋相等的球员时——你绝不应该选择一名准最佳阵容球员而不是一个妥妥的MVP。
然而，如果我们要讨论的是，不考虑天赋，我们更喜欢哪种打法风格来建队，我倾向于选择更注重团队的打法。历史表明，“太阳系”进攻体系有助于夺冠，而且看到每个人都参与其中也更有趣。
Devon Birdsong： 对于这支球队以及马刺队将围绕文班亚马 (Wemby) 展开的打法/需要围绕文班亚马 (Wemby) 展开的打法，我想我会选择哈利伯顿。亚历山大是过去两个赛季除了尼古拉·约基奇 (Nikola Jokic) 之外唯一真正配得上MVP的球员，但哈利伯顿能够根据需要退居二线组织进攻，并在关键时刻投进高难度球。亚历山大给我的感觉是巅峰詹姆斯·哈登的防守增强版：他整个球队的进攻都围绕着他运转，而且似乎这样运转效果最好。很难说马刺队不需要那种天赋，但我认为文班亚马需要作为球队的主要进攻核心，而哈利伯顿给我的感觉更适合这个角色。我还认为他的比赛风格可能更经得起时间的考验，因为亚历山大的很多比赛都取决于他惊人的爆发力和造犯规能力。
Gomez： 我认为亚历山大是完美的建队核心，因为他是一个无法阻挡的第一选择，而且不需要完全的“太阳系”进攻体系。我不会称哈利伯顿为体系球员，因为他的水平太高了，不适合这个称谓，但要想让他发挥出最耀眼的光芒，他需要一个能够补充其技能的阵容和一种强调其优势的打法。我不怕说我更喜欢步行者队的打法，而不是雷霆队，但我也不介意承认拥有一名传统的第一选择球员是更容易打造赢家的方式。
你认为杰里米·索汉 (Jeremy Sochan) 更接近成为帕斯卡尔·西亚卡姆 (Pascal Siakam)，还是德文·瓦塞尔 (Devin Vassell) 更接近成为杰伦·威廉姆斯 (Jalen Williams)？
Dubinski： 西亚卡姆六个赛季以来一直是稳定的场均20分得分手，在合适的帮手下，他完全有能力成为一支季后赛球队的最佳球员。即使索汉练出了稳定的跳投，我也不认为人们会对他有这样的期望甚至要求；他们的角色完全不同，难以比较。默认来说，这使得瓦塞尔更接近威廉姆斯，因为他们都能够成为进攻第二选择，尽管威廉姆斯目前已经证明自己更具爆发力且更稳定。
Mark Barrington： 我认为球员比较在描述球员天赋方面有价值，但每个球员都是独立的个体。我认为帕斯卡尔·西亚卡姆和杰里米·索汉的比赛风格没有太多相似之处。他们都是优秀的防守者，杰里米在防守端略占优势，但帕斯卡尔在进攻端比杰里米更具直觉性，后者可能永远达不到这个水平。杰里米的上限是精英防守者和机会主义得分手，这与西亚卡姆不太相似。
德文·瓦塞尔没有杰伦·威廉姆斯的运动能力，他的控球也不那么流畅，但也许他比索汉更接近西亚卡姆，因为他们都是有天赋的进攻球员，在防守端也付出了努力。瓦塞尔有可能成为杰伦那样的球员，但他已经在联盟更长时间了，也许他已经定型了。老实说，我不太喜欢这两个比较。
Jacob Douglas： 索汉和西亚卡姆的打法如此不同，这让他们很难比较。我想我会说是瓦塞尔，因为他在三个层次上都有得分能力。在发挥最好的夜晚，他比威廉姆斯更会投篮。不过，他的防守能力远不如威廉姆斯。这确实表明马刺队侧翼与雷霆队的差距有多大。如果圣安东尼奥想在未来几年内具备竞争力，这个位置将需要大幅提升。
Bill Huan： 我能说都不是吗？我们正在将两名最佳阵容级别的天赋，都可能最终进入名人堂的球员，与尚未表现出哪怕是稳定积极贡献的球员进行比较。不过，如果我必须选一个，那就是索汉之于西亚卡姆。
我看到我的PtR家族成员选择了相反的答案，因为瓦塞尔和威廉姆斯都可以作为次要进攻选择，但他们的比赛中实际相似之处不多。瓦塞尔是更好的射手，而威廉姆斯是更好的突破手、传球手、空切手等，换句话说，其他方面都更好。不过，两人之间最大的区别在于他们在防守端的全面性。瓦塞尔尚未证明他自己在防守端是积极的，而威廉姆斯是联盟中最能进行防守换防的五名球员之一，能够有效地防守从得分后卫到中锋的球员。
同样，索汉与西亚卡姆也不是非常相似，但如果我仔细看的话能看到一丝模糊的轮廓。他们都是全面的防守者，投篮不稳定（显然索汉的情况更严重），也都是优秀的传球手。当然，西亚卡姆是更好的得分手，但这两个人之间的维恩图重叠部分比瓦塞尔和威廉姆斯之间要大得多。
Devon Birdsong： 我认为马刺队的这两名球员的特点与被比较对象都不是非常相似。话虽如此，索汉目前在联盟中感觉是一个特别独特的球员。他最好的比较对象（对于现役球员而言）可能是德雷蒙德·格林 (Draymond Green)，但这感觉也有些牵强。他既不像本·西蒙斯 (Ben Simmons) 那样锋卫摇摆，也不像年轻时的阿隆·戈登 (Aaron Gordon) 那样身体素质变态。老实说，如果他真能开始投进三分，那么如果你稍稍眯眼，尼古拉斯·巴图姆 (Nicolas Batum) 感觉是一个公平的比较对象。即便如此，索汉在目前的发展阶段，老实说可能也是无与伦比的。所以，默认情况下，我不得不说瓦塞尔更接近成为杰伦·威廉姆斯，但我表示抗议。如果德文能够保持健康，在投篮选择上变得更明智、更高效，并提升防守，也许可以进行比较。不过，那句话里有很多限制条件。
Gomez： 与其回答这个问题，不如我来为这个比较辩护，因为这个比较是我提出的。我不能责怪任何人不记得那些“不错但算不上伟大”的猛龙队中的年轻帕斯卡尔，但他新秀赛季场均4分，二年级场均7分，在最初的两个赛季总共投进30个三分。他获得出场时间是因为他的防守多样性和不知疲倦的精力，而对他的进攻乐观的主要原因是他作为一名大前锋能够持球。索汉与那个时期的西亚卡姆并非不相似。至于威廉姆斯，他进入联盟时被认为是一个聪明全面的进攻球员，但不被认为是主要得分手，并且由于缺乏横向移动速度，被认为是可疑的防守前锋。现在的主要批评是他在进攻端表现不稳定。这不是完美对应，但瓦塞尔和威廉姆斯是相似类型的球员。
瓦塞尔和索汉会像威廉姆斯和西亚卡姆那样发展吗？可能不会，如果马刺队希望他们能成为球队的核心球员之一，这可能是一个问题。
你会选择雷霆队的管理层还是印第安纳队的教练组？
Dubinski： 归根结底，如果管理层无法提供可靠的阵容，教练组能做的也很有限，而且雷霆队打造争冠球队的道路确实很难反驳：交易得到一位未来的MVP（即使他们当时没有意识到），不断从其他球队手中获得高质量选秀权，并在自由球员市场签下合适的补充球员。尽管马刺队选中了他们的MVP，但他们也在走类似的道路，而且似乎正朝着正确的方向发展。
Mark Barrington： 这是个难以抉择的问题，但我认为我会选择萨姆·普雷斯蒂 (Sam Presti) 和雷霆队。里克·卡莱尔 (Rick Carlisle) 是一位战略天才，他最大化地发挥球员和战术体系的作用，但雷霆队的天赋储备让他们变成了一支强大的力量，无论是在常规赛还是季后赛，都在天赋异禀的西部占据了统治地位。他们选秀表现出色，也做出了像亚历克斯·卡鲁索 (Alex Caruso) 这样明智的引援，这给他们带来了防守端的经验和强硬，帮助他们在分区半决赛中淘汰了掘金队。他们还储备了足够的选秀权，可以在很长一段时间内保持球队竞争力。如果你想建立王朝，你最好遵循雷霆队的道路。
Jacob Douglas： 我认为这几乎没有可比性。普雷斯蒂建立了一支能够争冠十年的阵容。它年轻、全面、阵容深度好，而且他仍然储备了大量的选秀资产，可以继续提升球队。雷霆队管理层在选秀后期或从“废品堆”中挑选和培养球员方面表现出色。看看阿隆·维金斯 (Aaron Wiggins)、卢·多尔特 (Luguentz Dort)、以赛亚·乔 (Isaiah Joe) 和阿杰伊·米切尔 (Ajay Mitchell)。我还认为尼古拉·托皮奇 (Nikola Topic) 的选择最终会给他们带来巨大回报。这很可能是NBA运营最好的球队。
Bill Huan： 问得好！这是一个非常艰难的决定。我通常认为拥有一支优秀的管理层比一位优秀的教练更重要，但我目前对马刺队管理层的信心比对他们教练组的信心更大。这并不是因为我对米奇·约翰逊 (Mitch Johnson) 及其教练组没有信心，而是因为他们仍然是未知数，而里克·卡莱尔 (Rick Carlisle) 在过去二十年里已经证明自己是联盟最好的教练之一。我希望自己被证明是错的，但目前很难选择一个“盲盒”而不是一个板上钉钉的名人堂教练。
Devon Birdsong： 马刺队管理层已经相当不错了，所以印第安纳队的教练组感觉是这里显而易见的答案，因为我对米奇·约翰逊的信心不如里克·卡莱尔，我既惧怕又敬佩他，因为他几乎仅凭老迈的德克·诺维茨基 (Dirk Nowitzki) 和一些“零配件”就击败了2014年“美丽篮球”时代的马刺队。卡莱尔偏爱的打法风格（以及球员类型）不仅与马刺队当前和历史上的愿景非常契合，而且他显然仍处于巅峰状态，本赛季他带领一支没有文班亚马/蒂姆·邓肯 (Tim Duncan)/诺维茨基类型球员的步行者队打进了NBA总决赛。米奇·约翰逊有可能是那种执教天才，但随着文班亚马的崛起，我不会冒任何风险。马刺队已经模仿了雷霆队囤积选秀权的做法，并且在选秀抽签方面以他们从未有过的方式取得了成功。我选择拥有现役（且近期）总决赛荣誉的教练。
Gomez： 与其回答这个问题，不如我来为这个比较辩护，因为这是我提出的。我不能责怪任何人不记得那些“不错但算不上伟大”的猛龙队中的年轻帕斯卡尔，但他新秀赛季场均4分，二年级场均7分，在最初的两个赛季总共投进30个三分。他获得出场时间是因为他的防守多样性和不知疲倦的精力，而对他的进攻乐观的主要原因是他作为一名大前锋他能够持球。索汉与那个时期的西亚卡姆并非不相似。至于威廉姆斯，他进入联盟时被认为是一个聪明全面的进攻球员，但不被认为是主要得分手，并且由于缺乏横向移动速度，被认为是可疑的防守前锋。现在的主要批评是他在进攻端表现不稳定。这不是完美对应，但瓦塞尔和威廉姆斯是相似类型的球员。
瓦塞尔和索汉会像威廉姆斯和西亚卡姆那样发展吗？可能不会，如果马刺队希望他们能成为球队的核心球员之一，这可能是一个问题。
点击查看原文：The NBA Finals are showing the Spurs that there are many ways to build a winner
The NBA Finals are showing the Spurs that there are many ways to build a winner
Superstar-driven offense or team ball? A focus on acquiring top-level talent or coaching up unappreciated pieces? The Finals are showing that both identities can work.
If you had to build a team around one player, would you pick the more ball-dominant SGA or the more team-oriented Haliburton?
Marilyn Dubinski: The fan of team-ball in me wants to say Haliburton, but he probably won’t ever quite reach MVP status, while SGA is proven MVP at this point with likely more to come. It also wouldn’t be accurate to say SGA is not team-oriented since he averaged a career-high 6.4 assists this season. Haliburton is the type of player who can get hot, and the clutch gene has certainly exploded in him during these playoffs, but I would need to see a more MVP-type regular season from him and another playoff run that is more dominant than full of comeback magic before I’d pick him. The bottom line is you want the best possible player to build around, and at this point, that’s SGA.
Mark Barrington: They’re both great players, but you have to go with Gilgeous-Alexander. He’s got the talent to carry a team to a win and can be a dominant player for the entire time he’s on the court, even if the other players aren’t playing at the highest level. Haliburton is more of a complementary player and can disappear at times, and he sometimes has games where he just doesn’t have that big of an impact. There’s no one else I’d want to have to take the last shot in a game than Tyrese or lead a fourth quarter comeback, but SGA has more impact for the other three quarters. Either one of them is a better finisher than anyone currently on the Spurs, and both teams can feel confident having their stars handle the ball in clutch situations.
Jacob Douglas: I’ll stick with the MVP. SGA is the first “offensive hub” guard in the modern era who I can actually see winning a championship due to his effort on the defensive end and willingness to fit into a scheme offensively. He combines the offensive explosiveness of a Luka Doncic or a James Harden with the sort of selflessness that someone like Haliburton exhibits. Haliburton can disappear sometimes because he’s not that assertive of a star. I think that hurt the Pacers tremendously in Game 2.
Bill Huan: If we’re picking between those two players specifically, it would be crazy not to go with SGA. Playstyles should be factored in when constructing a team, but only when discussing equal talents — there’s no world in which you should pick a borderline All-NBA player over a surefire MVP.
If, however, we’re talking about which playstyle we’d prefer to construct a team, regardless of talent, I’d go with one that’s more team-oriented. History shows that heliocentric offenses are conducive to championships, and it’s more fun to watch everyone be involved, too.
Devon Birdsong: For this team and the way the Spurs will play/need to play around Wemby, I think I’d take Haliburton. SGA was the only player not named Jokic truly worthy of winning MVP the last two seasons, but Haliburton is capable of stepping back and facilitating as needed, and making tough shots in the clutch. SGA strikes me as a more defensively capable version of peak James Harden: his entire team’s offense really revolves around him, and seems to function best that way. It’s hard to argue that the Spurs couldn’t use that kind of talent, but I’d argue that Wembanyama needs to function as his team’s primary hub, and Haliburton strikes me as a better fit for that. I also think that his game may age better in the long run, as a lot of SGA’s game hinges on his ungodly burst and ability to draw fouls.
Gomez: I think SGA is the perfect player to build around, because he’s an unstoppable first option that doesn’t require full heliocentricity. I’m not going to call Haliburton a system player because he’s too good for that designation, but to shine his brightest, he needs a roster that complements his skills and a style that emphasizes his strengths. I’m not afraid to say that I like how the Pacers play more than I enjoy the Thunder, but I also don’t mind acknowledging that having a traditional first option player is an easier way to build a winner.
Do you think Jeremy Sochan is closer to becoming Pascal Siakam or is Devin Vassell closer to becoming Jalen Williams?
Dubinski: Siakam has been a reliable 20-point-per-game player for six seasons now and could reasonably be the best player on a playoff team with the right supporting cast. Even if he develops a reliable jump shot, I don’t think that’s something that will ever be expected or even asked of Sochan; they simply play two entirely different roles to compare. I guess by default that puts Vassell closer to Williams since they are both capable of being the second option of offense, although Williams has proven to be more explosive and consistent at this point.
Barrington: I think that player comps can have value in figuring out how to describe a player’s talents, but every player is an individual. I don’t think there’s a whole lot of similarity between Pascal Siakam’s game and Jeremy Sochan’s. They’re both good defenders, with Jeremy having a slight edge on the defensive end, but Pascal is a much more intuitive player on offense than Jeremy will ever be. Jeremy’s ceiling is an elite defender and opportunistic scorer, which isn’t that much like Siakam.
Devin Vassell doesn’t have the athleticism of Jalen Williams, and his handle isn’t as smooth, but maybe he’s a little closer to Williams than Sochan is to Pascal because they’re both talented offensive players who give good effort on the defensive end. It’s possible that Vassell could become the kind of player that Jalen is, but he’s already been in the league longer, and maybe he’s already who he’s going to be. To be honest, I’m not a fan of either comparison.
Douglas: Sochan and Siakam play such a different game, which makes them hard to compare. I suppose I’d say Vassell due to his scoring ability at all three levels. On his best night, he’s a better shooter than Williams. He doesn’t come anywhere close to Williams’ defensive ability, though. It does show how far the Spurs are behind the Thunder on the wing. It’s a position that will need some serious upgrading if San Antonio wants to compete in the coming years.
Huan: Can I say neither? We’re comparing two All-NBA talents, both of whom might end up in the Hall of Fame, with players who haven’t shown to be even consistent positive contributors. If I had to pick one, though, it would be Sochan to Siakam.
I see many of my PtR family going with the opposite because Vassell and Williams can both operate as secondary offensive options, but there’s really not much that’s actually similar in their games. Vassell is a much better shooter while Williams is a better slasher, passer, cutter, etc, aka, better at everything else. The biggest difference between the two, though, is their versatility on defense. Vassell has yet to prove that he’s even a positive in his own end, while Williams is one of the five most switchable defenders in the league and capable of adequately guarding shooting guards to centers.
Again, Sochan isn’t very similar to Siakam either, but I can see the faint outline if I really squint. They’re both versatile defenders who are iffy shooters (much more in Sochan’s case, obviously) and good passers, too. Of course, Siakam is a much better scorer, but the Venn diagram overlaps between these two is much greater than that of Vassell and Williams.
Birdsong: I don’t think either Spur profiles very similarly to their point of comparison. That being said, Sochan feels like a particularly unique player in the league right now. His best point of comparison (for active players) might be Draymond Green, but even that feels kind of thin. He’s neither as guard-forward as Ben Simmons was, nor as freakish an athlete as a younger Aaron Gordon was. Honestly, if he can really start hitting his threes, Nicolas Batum feels like a fair comp if you squint a little. Even then, Sochan might honestly be fairly incomparable at this stage in his development. So, by default, I’d have to say that Vassell is closer to becoming Jalen Williams, but I do so in protest. If Devin could stay healthy, become smarter and more efficient with his shot selection, and improve defensively, a comparison could perhaps be made. A lot of conditionals in that sentence, though.
Gomez: Instead of answering the question, I’ll defend the comparison, since I made it. I can’t blame anyone for not remembering young Pascal on those good-never-great Raptors team, but he averaged four points as a rookie and seven as a sophomore while making a total of 30 threes in those initial two seasons. He got minutes because of his defensive versatility and tireless energy, and the main cause for optimism about his offense was his ability to handle the ball as a big forward. Sochan is not dissimilar to that Siakam. As for Williams, coming into the league, he was considered a smart and well-rounded offensive player who didn’t project to be a primary scorer, and a questionable point-of-attack defender because of a lack of lateral quickness. The main criticism nowadays is that he can be inconsistent on offense. It’s not a 1:1 match, but Vassell and Williams are similartypes of players.
Will Vassell and Sochan develop as Williams and Siakam did? Probably not, which could be a problem if the Spurs are hoping they can be one of their top guys.
Would you rather have OKC’s front office or Indiana’s coaching staff?
Dubinski: When push comes to shove, the coaching staff can only do so much if the front office doesn’t come through with a reliable roster, and it’s pretty hard to argue with the route OKC has taken to build a contender: trade for a future MVP (even if they didn’t realize it at the time), keep fleecing other teams for good draft picks, and get the right complimentary players in free agency. Although the Spurs drafted their MVP, they are otherwise following a similar path, and it seems to be headed in the right direction.
Barrington: That’s a tough call, but I think I’d go with Sam Presti and the Thunder. Rick Carlisle is a strategic genius and gets the most out of his players and scheme, but the stockpiling of talent on the OKC squad makes them into a juggernaut that dominated the talent-rich West, both in the regular season and in the playoffs. They drafted well and also made smart pickups like Caruso, which gave them veteran toughness on defense that got them past the Nuggets in the conference semifinals. They also have enough draft picks stockpiled to keep the team competitive for a long time. If you’re trying to build a dynasty, you’d do well to follow the same path as the Thunder.
Douglas: I don’t think this is particularly close. Presti has built a roster capable of contending for a decade. It’s young, versatile, deep, and he still has a stockpile of draft assets to continue to improve it. The Thunder’s front office has been excellent at selecting and developing players later in the draft or off the scrap heap. Look at Aaron Wiggins, Lu Dort, Isaiah Joe, and Ajay Mitchell. I also think the Nikola Topic pick will eventually pay big dividends for them. This is likely the best-run franchise in the NBA.
Huan: Great question! This is a really tough decision to make. I generally think having a good front office is more important than a good coach, but I have more faith in the Spurs’ FO than their coaching staff right now. That’s not because I don’t have faith in Mitch Johnson and co., but rather that they’re still an unknown while Rick Carlisle has established himself as one of the league’s best coaches for two decades now. I’d love to be proven wrong, but it’s tough to take a mystery box over a sure-fire HoF coach currently.
Birdsong: The Spurs front office is already pretty good, so Indiana’s coaching staff feels like the easy answer here, as I’m not as sold on Mitch Johnson as I would be Rick Carlisle, who I’ve both feared and admired since he nearly took down the Beautiful Game Spurs of 2014 using nothing but an aging Dirk Nowitzki and spare parts. Not only would Carlisle’s preferred styles of play (and players) line up fantastically with the Spurs’ vision currently and historically, but he’s clearly still at his best, having taken a Pacers team without a Wemby/Duncan/Dirk type player to the NBA Finals this season. It’s possible that Mitch Johnson is that kind of coaching genius, but with Wemby ascending, I’m not taking any chances. The Spurs have already aped OKC’s pick hoarding and won out in a way they never did lottery-wise. I’ll take the coach with active (and recent) Finals accolades.
Gomez: Timing is everything in the NBA. The answer would have easily been the Thunder’s front office at the start of the rebuild, since Brian Wright was an unknown and had made a couple of questionable moves, and the Spurs had a Hall-of-Fame coach already in place. Now that Pop is gone and Wright has shown he can find talent in the draft and make good trades, it has to be the Pacers’ coaching staff, because it’s Mitch Johnson’s turn to earn the fan base’s trust.
By Jeje Gomez, Marilyn Dubinski, Mark Barrington, Jacob Douglas, Bill Huan, Devon Birdsong, via Pounding The Rock